Hunting with a loaded AR Pistol

[E Pluribus Unum]

I had the revelation the other day... for many years I have traveled in my vehicle while hunting with unloaded rifle, pistol in a holster loaded with one in the pipe.

This is because in unincorporated territory, where discharge is not prohibited 12031PC does does not apply. Fish and Game code 2006 says that one cannot carry a loaded rifle in a vehicle but does not apply to pistols.

If that has passed muster for years, then the next questions is, what about an AR pistol with a 15" barrel? That too should be allowed.

[shafferds]

Make sure any ammo is lead free in condor areas when hunting.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Make sure any ammo is lead free in condor areas when hunting.

Obviously... and next year it will be required through the entire state.

[Jimmy's]

Good luck with a loaded weapon in a car unless it's a carry pistol with a CCW.

[Huntsprig]

Opinion by THOMAS C. LYNCH, Attorney General; Edward W. Bergtholdt, Deputy to questions presented by the head of DFG.



1. Does the term "firearm" as used in Penal Code section 12031 include rifles and shotguns?

2. Does Penal Code section 12031 prohibit the carrying of a rifle or shotgun with unexpended shells or cartridges in the magazine on a public road in an unincorporated area where there are no local ordinances or other laws or regulations prohibiting the discharge of firearms?

3. Does Penal Code section 374c make every "public road or highway" a "prohibited area," as defined in section 12031?

4. Is the term "public street" as used in section 12031 synonymous with "public road or highway" as used in Penal Code section 374c?

5. Would the "safety zone" described in Fish and Game Code section 3004 be considered a "prohibited area" as defined in section 12031(d)?

The conclusions are:

1. The term "firearm" as used in Penal Code section 12031 includes rifles and shotguns.

2. Penal Code section 12031 does not prohibit the carrying of a rifle or shotgun with unexpended shells or cartridges in the magazine on a public road in an unincorporated area where there are no local ordinances or other laws or regulations prohibiting the discharge of firearms.
Question No. 2 requests an opinion whether section 12031 prohibits the carrying of a loaded firearm on a public road in an unincorporated area. We conclude that section 12031 does not prohibit the carrying of loaded firearms on such public ways. For the reasons set forth in our answer to question No. 4, the term "public streets" in section 12031 (a) must be given a narrow construction. There is a distinction between [*8] "public roads" and "public streets" which is discussed more fully below. The proscriptions of section 12031 are therefore not applicable to "public roads" because they are not "public streets" as that term is used in section 12031. n2


3. Penal Code section 374c does make every "public road or highway" a "prohibited area" as defined in section 12031.
requests an opinion whether Penal Code section 374c n3 makes every "public road" a "prohibited area" as defined by section 12031. Because [*9] the discharge of firearms is prohibited on "public roads and highways," these public ways are by definition "prohibited areas" (section 12031 (d)). This does not, however, alter our conclusion that the proscriptions of section 12031 are not applicable to such public ways because, as set forth in our response to your question No. 4, the term "public road or highway" is not synonymous with the term "public street."

4. The term "public street" as used in section 12031 is not synonymous with "public road or highway" as used in Penal Code section 374c.
Additionally, earlier versions of A.B. 1591 would have amended Fish and Game Code section 2006. Such amendment was designed to conform the definition of a loaded rifle or shotgun in Fish and Game Code section 2006 to the definition of a loaded firearm in Penal Code section 12031. Section 2006 applies on all "public highway [s] or other way[s] open to the public." The failure of the Legislature to enact such an amendment to section 2006 suggests that it did not intend that section 2006 be superseded by section 12031. Had it desired section 2006 to be superseded, it would have either amended its definition of a loaded weapon to conform to section 12031 or repealed it entirely.

For these reasons we must conclude that the Legislature intended the term "public streets" be given a narrow meaning. It is not synonymous, then, with "public roads and highways," but includes only the public ways of towns and villages and not the "open roads" in rural sections of unincorporated areas.

5. The "safety zone" described in Fish and Game Code section 3004 is a "prohibited area" as defined in section 12031, but carrying of loaded weapons is proscribed therein only when it coincides with a "public place."


.

[Quiet]

Penal Code 12031 is no longer in effect due to it being recodified.


Applicable Penal Codes relating to loaded firearm in public, vehicles, and hunting...


Penal Code 25850Penal Code 26040
Nothing in Section 25850 shall prevent any person from carrying a loaded firearm in an area within an incorporated city while engaged in hunting, provided that the hunting at that place and time is not prohibited by the city council.

Penal Code 26100
(a) It is a misdemeanor for a driver of any motor vehicle or the owner of any motor vehicle, whether or not the owner of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, knowingly to permit any other person to carry into or bring into the vehicle a firearm in violation of Section 25850 of this code or Section 2006 of the Fish and Game Code.
(b) Any driver or owner of any vehicle, whether or not the owner of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, who knowingly permits any other person to discharge any firearm from the vehicle is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or in state prison for 16 months or two or three years.
(c) Any person who willfully and maliciously discharges a firearm from a motor vehicle at another person other than an occupant of a motor vehicle is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in state prison for three, five, or seven years.
(d) Except as provided in Section 3002 of the Fish and Game Code, any person who willfully and maliciously discharges a firearm from a motor vehicle is guilty of a public offense punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or in the state prison.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Penal Code 12031 is no longer in effect due to it being recodified.


Applicable Penal Codes relating to loaded firearm in public, vehicles, and hunting...


Penal Code 25850
(a) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when the person carries a loaded firearm on the person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street [b]in an incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a prohibited area of unincorporated territory[b]Penal Code 26040
Nothing in Section 25850 shall prevent any person from carrying a loaded firearm in an area within an incorporated city while engaged in hunting, provided that the hunting at that place and time is not prohibited by the city council.

Penal Code 26100
(a) It is a misdemeanor for a driver of any motor vehicle or the owner of any motor vehicle, whether or not the owner of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, knowingly to permit any other person to carry into or bring into the vehicle a firearm in violation of Section 25850 of this code or Section 2006 of the Fish and Game Code.
(b) Any driver or owner of any vehicle, whether or not the owner of the vehicle is occupying the vehicle, who knowingly permits any other person to discharge any firearm from the vehicle is punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or in state prison for 16 months or two or three years.
(c) Any person who willfully and maliciously discharges a firearm from a motor vehicle at another person other than an occupant of a motor vehicle is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in state prison for three, five, or seven years.
(d) Except as provided in Section 3002 of the Fish and Game Code, any person who willfully and maliciously discharges a firearm from a motor vehicle is guilty of a public offense punishable by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year or in the state prison.

Fish and game code 3002 says:

It is unlawful to shoot at any game bird or mammal, including a marine mammal as defined in Section 4500 , from a powerboat, sailboat, motor vehicle, or airplane.

I've researched further and found this:

http://www.fgc.ca.gov/regulations/current/mammalregs.aspx

Am I reading this right? One cannot even use a vehicle to track deer?

[dirtydrew]

Firearms need to be unloaded while in the vehicle, unless it's your CCW pistol.

[sigstroker]

[TrailerparkTrash]

If that has passed muster for years, then the next questions is, what about an AR pistol with a 15" barrel? That too should be allowed.

[edgerly779]

Yes trash is wrong. Fixed mag ar pistols are legal.

[E Pluribus Unum]

Firearms need to be unloaded while in the vehicle, unless it's your CCW pistol.

Under the old definitions in 12031 and FG2006 "loaded" was different.

"Loaded" in incorporated territory was bullet in mag, mag in gun.

"Loaded" in un-incorporated territory was bullet in pipe. (loaded mag in gun was legal)

It appears as if that has changed?

[IVC]

I think the question was about *AR* pistol, much more than about pistols in general.

In CA, the more unusual the setup, the more hassle you can expect. If the officer thinks something is illegal or not quite right, they can take you in, book you, then figure it out. If the officer was wrong, but believed to be doing right, he is in the clear. You, on the other hand, have just lost a day or worse.

[E Pluribus Unum]

I think the question was about *AR* pistol, much more than about pistols in general.

In CA, the more unusual the setup, the more hassle you can expect. If the officer thinks something is illegal or not quite right, they can take you in, book you, then figure it out. If the officer was wrong, but believed to be doing right, he is in the clear. You, on the other hand, have just lost a day or worse.

I know this all too well..... that's why you have the PC printed out and an attorney on retainer.

The whole purpose of this is I am hunting with an old man that is too proud to go down and get the "I'm too old to and feeble to walk so you should let me shoot from the vehicle" permit. The idea is if he can legally carry an AR pistol loaded in the vehicle than all he need do is step out of the Jeep and fire.