Lever action rifle vs. pump action shotgun for home defense and fun at the range

[Starslinger]

ACKSHUALLY....you should do some research on this. 5.56 underpenetrates compared to pistol/buckshot. This makes it ideal for home defense (if you can get over the blast and noise that comes from using a 16" ar indoors w/o earpro).

I read quite a few articles saying that .223/5.56 penetrates less than 9mm or 00 buck. This was a big surprise to me until I learned about the relatively small size of the .223 bullet. It still concerns me, though, that a missed .223 shot out a window could potentially be deadly at 500 yards. 9mm and buckshot won't travel like that.

[smle-man]

ball projectiles shed velocity fairly quickly so buckshot doesn't carry as far as a bullet.

[ChuckDizzle]

Although I primarily use a rifle for home defense if I was going for my first long gunit would be a pump action with interchangeable barrels and get a security/field combo.

For me there is no greater fun to be had on the range than shooting clay pigeons. And you would be hard pressed to find a more practical exercise for home defense than picking up, tracking, and hitting a moving target. Good lucking finding a range to do that with a rifle. Doubles trap will teach you to quickly cycle the action as well.

The Browning BPS is a fine shotgun indeed, however the classic Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 would make excellent options as well and often sell with the combo barrel package.

[caliguy93]

[golfish]

Get a model 1892 Winchester in .357 .. I own half a dozen shotguns, none of them are as fun to shoot as the model 92. 38sp rounds are cheap and easy on the shoulder.

[rugershooter]

[QUOTE=Ej6fade;21788560]

Maybe not, but it could be. The option is there to run slugs, 00 buck, #4 buck, flight control 00 buck/000 buck, etc. If running 00 buck, its also 9 .33 caliber pellets in one shot vs 1 30-30 round (or other caliber). Also, if needed depending on where you live, animals like bears may be more of a factor than humans, you can keep some bear slugs in the tube or in the saddle. In regards to the second, with ammo in the chamber, its simply topping off the mag tube with the other round you want and racking it in. If you have the action open and no shell on the lifter, drop it in and rack closed.

If you're talking about changing the types of ammunition you're using in the middle of a gunfight, I seriously question the amount of training and experience you have. You really think that you're going to be able to think "s***, shot isn't going to work, I need to switch to slugs"? I get it, yeah a shotgun is versatile in the type of ammo you can use. But that is only useful before the fight; which really only means that you're tailoring the gun to the anticipated use. But since you seem to be talking about changing ammo during a gunfight, have you trained for that? Have you trained under stress to analyze the situation and decide that you need to switch ammo because the currently loaded ammo isn't ideal? It involves more than simply loading more ammo into the gun when it's empty.

It is still easier/more simple to just swap in a new hand guard, which leaves the original furniture intact, and if its something like Magpul's 500/590 or 870 forend, allows for many ways and options of mounting things, more ergonomically friendly, via MOE, 1913 (pic), M-lok; different mounts, QD, etc. and it also is easier to set up a light & tape switch to run weak side IMO. There is also the factor of aftermarket hand guards with integrated lights on the market, like Surefire's DSF forends, which require no modification to the gun or ruining the original hand guard.

We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I think it's pretty easy to mount a short Pic rail to the hand guard with two screws, and I don't really care about putting a couple small holes in it. Sure, there are less options with a lever gun, but that doesn't mean it's harder to mount a light.

Yes actually. HD gun is left cruiser ready, first 2 rounds are slugs, next 2 are flight control 00 buck, then 2 slugs & 4 flight control 00 buck in the side saddle. IF I have to shoot, bad guy is not getting up

Have you patterned your gun with those loads? From what I've seen, within HD distances, there won't be any real difference between the shot and slugs. If that's the case, then using different ammo doesn't really give you any advantage. If it does pattern differently, what advantage does that give you? You'd have to have the presence of mind under stress to know exactly which round you're firing and when you're firing it to use it to its full advantage.

For a pump shotgun, the rounds are loaded directly into the tube at the action of the firearm; fast to load, easy to access. For a side loading gate lever gun, reloading is also quick; easy access, easy to top off.

For a tube loading lever gun, you actually have to un-shoulder the rifle, then pull out partially or entirely remove the mag tube retainer/spring, load rounds, push back down or reinsert the mag tube retainer/spring, lock detent into place. Mind you this in theory is all entirely under stress in a HD scenario, possibly being shot at, possibly being on the phone with 911, etc. Again, in theory.

I concede my 1800's comment may be historically inaccurate, but I stand by my original assessment of pump shotgun > lever gun, especially if tube loading.

You need more time with a lever gun then. You can load a tubular magazine lever gun from the shoulder. Either way, you're pushing ammunition into the mag tube. So what's the real difference between a tube mag shotgun and a tube mag lever gun? There really isn't any difference in ease of loading.

Maybe I'm out of the loop, but generally speaking, I've seen used pump guns are cheaper in general than lever guns. Mossberg Maverick 88's for $150, Mossberg 500's as low as $200-300, some even with Magpul furniture. Mossberg 590A1 models going for $400-450. I would never buy a newer production cheap 870 (something like the 870 express), but I've seen them go for $150-300.

I've seen used lever guns, even in CA, for around $250. Mostly Marlins.

I agree, but there are fun range guns then there are defensive tools. As far as fun factor, I honestly can't put my finger on it; lever guns felt sort of bland to me, which still makes me a little sad, I grew up on & still love westerns. Lever guns just don't do it for me. I still do love classic wood and steel, my favorite guns to shoot are my M1A (M14 clone, USGI walnut stock, irons only), My M1 Garand, and my friend's 1903 (I still need one). I still shoot more/practice more with my ARs, shotguns, and my Glocks, even though they are all less fun than my M1 Garand (except the Benelli M4), because proficiency is paramount with any defensive tool.

If that's your preference, cool. Shoot what you like. But you're proving my point. If you have a gun that is specifically and only a defensive tool and you don't enjoy shooting it as much as your range toys, you simply won't shoot it as much as your range toys. It'll be a chore to shoot your defensive gun that you don't really enjoy using. Shooting is fun, so there's no reason to get a defensive gun that you don't enjoy shooting. Look at it from the opposite perspective. If you absolutely loved shooting lever guns, didn't really like shotguns, but had one for HD, you'd probably be less likely to use your shotgun since you didn't like it as much.

True, in theory less shooting can = less proficiency, especially for a gun you don't find fun. I go back to ammo cost for this, on average I see 100 round value packs of 12GA brdshot for about $18-20, for lever guns , 30-30 for example, 20 round boxes of ammo for $10-16 (this doesn't matter if you reload). If you wanted to practice ALOT, it is more cost effective to with birdshot vs 30-30. Buckshot can also be had pretty cheap, I scored about 4K rounds of 12GA S&B 2 3/4 00 buckshot for practice ammo for $68 per case of 250 last year, I don't often see bulk 30-30 at the same price levels (relatively speaking)

Not theory. Fact. How many proficient competition level shooters do you know of that don't shoot much? Shooting is a perishable skill, and you will lose it if you don't maintain that skill. That requires shooting. You're right, though, generally shotgun ammo is cheaper. But that is also dependent on the individual's budget and the type of ammo used...you didn't consider handloads or pistol calibers.