Ffl that does engraving

[tonyt22]

Looking for a ffl around the high desert area that does engraving on 80s and also looking for someone that can do creakote or anodizeing

[el tardo]

[tonyt22]

Someone told me that was a big no

[swell1957]

Someone told me that was a big no

I concur. The ATF frowns on businesses doing engraving firearms without an FFL, even with the customer present.
As I understand it an FFL is required if you are in the business of working on firearms regardless of customer being present.

If an engraver does one, maybe they can get away with it, but starting advertising and doing a bunch and its going to appear like that engraver is in the business.

[Notpc]

This is copied right off the form to apply for a serial number (BOF 1008).
I bolded the relevant area of discussion and added link to form.

Upon receipt of your serial number, you may contact a Federal Firearms Licensed Manufacturer (type 07) to have your
Department issued serial number applied in a manner consistent with the requirement outlined in the California Code of
Regulations, title 11, section 5474.2. However, a Federal Firearms Licensee is under no obligation to perform this work. A
person who has manufactured their own firearm may also use non licensed parties to apply the serial number and other
required markings, however, the owner of the weapon must not leave the firearm unattended with an unlicensed party
because of firearm transfer and/or lending laws.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/agweb/pdfs/firearms/forms/bof-1008.pdf

[swell1957]

ATF would say otherwise.

Which supersedes in this case?

As long as the engraver is not "in the business" this may be permissible.

As soon as the engraver starts being "in the business" ATF will have issues. And of course the ATF is vague about defining what constitutes being "in the business."

This is copied right off the form to apply for a serial number (BOF 1008).
I bolded the relevant area of discussion and added link to form.

Upon receipt of your serial number, you may contact a Federal Firearms Licensed Manufacturer (type 07) to have your
Department issued serial number applied in a manner consistent with the requirement outlined in the California Code of
Regulations, title 11, section 5474.2. However, a Federal Firearms Licensee is under no obligation to perform this work. A
person who has manufactured their own firearm may also use non licensed parties to apply the serial number and other
required markings, however, the owner of the weapon must not leave the firearm unattended with an unlicensed party
because of firearm transfer and/or lending laws.

https://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/a...s/bof-1008.pdf

[el tardo]

[swell1957]

Not FUD.

I have asked ATF this specific question. Working on firearms as part of a business requires an FFL regardless of if the owner is present or not.

Gun show engravers get shutdown by ATF for not being licensed.

Has there been a change is Federal law? The only thing new I've seen is CA DOJ has said a person may take a firearm to an unlicensed person to engrave while they remain present. That doesn't mean the ATF agrees. From my research and asking the ATF directly, they say that business requires an FFL.

[el tardo]

Show proof
You have been show here what the law states And unless they change that in court and the law has been updated you are incorrect. Again show proof

Not FUD.

I have asked ATF this specific question. Working on firearms as part of a business requires an FFL regardless of if the owner is present or not.

Gun show engravers get shutdown by ATF for not being licensed.

Has there been a change is Federal law? The only thing new I've seen is CA DOJ has said a person may take a firearm to an unlicensed person to engrave while they remain present. That doesn't mean the ATF agrees. From my research and asking the ATF directly, they say that business requires an FFL.

[edgerly779]

I am having mine done at P & L in sgv. Very reasonable and he has ffl I have 6 to do and 2 1911s

[swell1957]

Show proof
You have been show here what the law states And unless they change that in court and the law has been updated you are incorrect. Again show proof

Sure, no problem. Here is what the ATF says in their Federal Firearms Regulations Guide (2014), page 206:

(J1) Is a license needed to engage in
the business of engraving, customizing,
refinishing or repairing
firearms?

Yes. A person conducting such activities
as a business is considered to be a
gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11) and (21); 27 CFR
478.11]

I have not found any ATF documents or regulations that say an FFL is not required when the customer is present. The only exception is that the FFL does not have to log the firearm in the A&D book.

[el tardo]

Yeah that’s just what I thought only half facts that references nothing to you staying there with the item just like the other previous laws that were pointed out to you.

Sure, no problem. Here is what the ATF says in their Federal Firearms Regulations Guide (2014), page 206:

(J1) Is a license needed to engage in
the business of engraving, customizing,
refinishing or repairing
firearms?

Yes. A person conducting such activities
as a business is considered to be a
gunsmith within the definition of a dealer.
[18 U.S.C. 921(a)(11) and (21); 27 CFR
478.11]

I have not found any ATF documents or regulations that say an FFL is not required when the customer is present. The only exception is that the FFL does not have to log the firearm in the A&D book.

[sigstroker]

Aren't you guys a sanctuary state? Eff ATF.