Buying mail order vs. make your own ammo

[froggy47]

Is this the license?


Curios & Relics FFL 03?

http://www.garandgear.com/cnr_ffl_03

Does not mention ammo.

Thanks.

[CSACANNONEER]

Is this the license?


Curios & Relics FFL 03?

http://www.garandgear.com/cnr_ffl_03

Does not mention ammo.

Thanks.

That FFL is for collectors. It doesn't mention ammunition because, a Federal license isn't Federally required to purchase ammunition by mail/over the internet. However, it is a FFL and does meet the CALIFORNIA's requirement to get ammunition shipped directly to you. Of course, you will also need a CA COE along with any FFL to get ammo shipped to you.

[aspenvalley]

Fear of over pressure events should not keep you from reloading unless you are careless. You can select powders that make it hard to double charge and always check your OAL and for the most part you are good.

[NOTABIKER]

I started reloading so i will never worry how i am going to get ammo. I have been picking up brass at the range . I do not think i am saving much money because 223 is cheap. But i will not be at the mercy of ammo laws if i stock up on powder and bullets.
1. Brass [ save and pick up ] FREE
2. 55 grain bullets about .10c each
3. primer .01 c each
4. powder about .10c each

A fellow calguner gave me a old single stage press . I might have 200 in all the needed accessories needed to re load.LEE dies for each caliber are around 35 dollars.

[Tommy Gun]

When you started your fire arm hobby you should have saved every piece of brass you shot. This gives you a good starting point to reloading as brass is a substantial part of the cost. Depending what you shoot, recoup costs could be longer. I started with .308 so I recouped my costs in my first marathon 1300 round reloading session. After that it's all gravy with dies being the only cost, component costs now being labeled as ammo costs which are now 50ish% lower than you would have spent on factory.

The real benefit comes when you start making custom loads if you have a big bore rifle. I'm now looking at building a 6.5 Creedmoor Gas Sytem rifle. The knowledge you gained reloading go as you a leg up when you are ready for true round specs.

[GW]

Please direct me if this has already been discussed. I bought as much as I could afford by 12/31 multi calibers, but that's about 1-2 years worth depending how active I am.

I was buying mail order 5.56 at my doorstep (sales) @ .25/rd now my local indoor range gets .60/rd for reloads (which is fine, but I'm retired & need to stretch a buck much as I can).

So far as I can tell (not a lawyer) I can still get mail order "parts". Not talking reloading once shot brass (a lot of work cleaning sizing etc) but just assembling case, primer, powder, bullet. I think that would take less time & require a few less tools.

Assuming I buy bulk (to lower costs) is that feasible or does it end up more than .60/rd for reloads (plus sales tax is really almost .70/rd.

I would buy basic reloading tools & my labor is "free".

What do you guys think? Waste of time or maybe worth it? This is personal use only, not to sell. I have time to do it & a garage but I don't want this to be a ridiculous amount of work.

I know real "sharpshooters" make their own for really high quality ammo, I am thinking along the lines of decent but not "national match" type ammo.

Thanks.

Probably just 5.56 and .45 auto.

Reloading is NOT a waste of time at all. Reloading is fun in its own right and working up loads that are tailored to your specific guns is an engaging endeavor. Reloading presses and components are not on any hit lists yet so now is the time to get into it. It can save you money over the long haul.
I recommend a Lee turret press for a starter and get yourself a good scale to make sure your powder charges are correct. Lyman Reloading Manual is a great primer for learning how to reload and they have tons of loads for lead bullets for both .45 ACP and .223 if you want to try that. (Bullet casting is another interesting hobby) Get a good set of calipers and/or case gauges
Lee makes decent reloading dies and you can go up the precision and price scale from there.

If you really get into reloading you can upgrade to a Dillon Progressive press and really crank out the ammo.

Start reloading!!

[froggy47]

That FFL is for collectors. It doesn't mention ammunition because, a Federal license isn't Federally required to purchase ammunition by mail/over the internet. However, it is a FFL and does meet the CALIFORNIA's requirement to get ammunition shipped directly to you. Of course, you will also need a CA COE along with any FFL to get ammo shipped to you.

Wading into this more.



So there are 9 ffl's. Phew. 1,2,3,6,7,8,9,10,11 and 3 SOT's 1,2,3.

If all I wanted to do was buy mail order ammo in CA, is it ffl3/sot1?

Let's say I wanted to be able to buy a firearm as a "dealer" and sell it (like my local gun store buy on a very small scale (think garage). Plus buy online ammo.

Which ffl/sot combo is that?

I am just thinking along the lines, if I am going to the trouble of getting the ffl3/sot? then why not "upgrade" to a more comprehensive license(s)?

I think there are inspections & such.

Thanks.

Link to wiki where I found this all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License

[sigstroker]

You can easily cut those costs in about half if you shop around for deals and buy in volume when you find them. Of course, if you take up casting and can find free lead, you can drop your costs to powder, primers and bullet lube.

Not really. Seldom are jacketed bullets on sale for half price.

You're talking apples to oranges. You're talking about low velocity pistol ammo, OP is talking 5.56.

At any rate OP can find some cheap Lee stuff that works well. Single stage press, their trimmer, etc. The equipment to size and trim rifle brass is not very expensive as long as you don't have to deal with military crimped primers. It's just time consuming - perfect for a retiree.

Scrounge garage sales. Someone always wants to get rid of stuff that's nearly worthless used, like primer pocket cleaners or deburring tools or case gauges, that nickel and dime you if you buy new.

[sigstroker]

Froggy, ATF frowns on kitchen table dealers. They want to see a storefront. For that you need approval from your local govt. If you live in a place like San Francisco forget it.

Even if you just get something that allows you to buy and sell ammo (sell it to yourself) it's likely California will make you buy an ammo sellers permit, and it probably won't be cheap. Like more expensive than taking an annual trip to buy ammo elsewhere.

[ar15barrels]

If all I wanted to do was buy mail order ammo in CA, is it ffl3/sot1?

Let's say I wanted to be able to buy a firearm as a "dealer" and sell it (like my local gun store buy on a very small scale (think garage). Plus buy online ammo.

Which ffl/sot combo is that?

I am just thinking along the lines, if I am going to the trouble of getting the ffl3/sot? then why not "upgrade" to a more comprehensive license(s)?

I think there are inspections & such.

Thanks.

Link to wiki where I found this all:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Firearms_License

You are WAY over-thinking this.
You do not need an SOT at all.

An 03 FFL is $30 for 3 years and 3 weeks wait after you fill out a form and mail it in.
They do not even need fingerprints.

The CA COE requires a livescan and will run you around $90 for your first year and then $22 per year after that.
DOJ is processing COE's in under a week if you do it online or 3 weeks through the mail.

All the other FFL's are much more involved and will also require licensing by your city and the state.
Your locality will be the determining factor to wether you can deal firearms out of your home.
Many cities prohibit such activity.

[froggy47]

You are WAY over-thinking this.
You do not need an SOT at all.

An 03 FFL is $30 for 3 years and 3 weeks wait after you fill out a form and mail it in.
They do not even need fingerprints.

The CA COE requires a livescan and will run you around $90 for your first year and then $22 per year after that.
DOJ is processing COE's in under a week if you do it online or 3 weeks through the mail.

All the other FFL's are much more involved and will also require licensing by your city and the state.
Your locality will be the determining factor to wether you can deal firearms out of your home.
Many cities prohibit such activity.

Thanks for getting into some real info, other guys please limit your conjecture, I know everyone likes to type & all, but I'm looking for real (detailed if possible) info, so I can proceed with this in an informed manner.

Just got off the phone with Midwayusa (where I was buying a lot b4 12/31. They have a dept that deals with sending your "papers" to them so they can ship. Well I asked the girl what ffl I needed and she said ffl-1. Then I said, "I heard you can ship to an ffl-3 holder" So she says I needed ffl-1 AND ffl-3. I knew then that I was dealing with someone whose job it is to take the calls but knew no FACTS about what she was saying. I just asked for a call back from her sup/mgr. and left my contact info.

So for this thread let's stick to facts, guys who actually know what the laws are & maybe have done it. I can tell there are 2-3 who know facts. I want to converse with them & everyone else crack a beer (tonight) & read and learn. No offense to ANYONE, just let's stick to real facts, no "fake news".

It's not a trivial thing to do this, not getting a library card.

froggy

for ar15barrels that seems like a satisfactory solution, I am planning on shooting (and have been for a couple of months) 200/rds every 2 weeks or so. Rather than shoot off all I bought I want to stay "topped off" in case supply dries up or price goes thru the roof (in CA) for the obvious reasons. Even if I taper off to once a month those costs will be recovered in $$ ammo savings in probably 6 months or so (back of napkin math). Fed/CA already have my info with registered "assault" rifles, business licenses that require state registration (car dealership) live scan & etc. So they know who I am and where I am already.

I appreciate your help, not overthinking, just I am a noob to ffl so noob questions are to be expected. Please pardon me in advance.

[Milsurp1]

Some stores, such as Midway, do not ship to 03FFL+COE holders even though it is legal for most types of ammunition. There are threads on CalGuns identifying which sellers ship to 03FFL+COE holders (Brownells, etc). There are many threads describing the steps to apply for your 03 FFl and COE. The application instructions are also available on the BATFE (03FFL-federal) and California DOJ (COE- State) websites.

[M1NM]

It's cheaper to reload. Yes you will need to factor in the price of equipment. A cheapo LEE set up will work fine but it's not a lifetime investment. A used RCBS Rockchucker would be the best place to start. Since you aren't worried about labor costs single stage is just fine. I shoot less now so I've gotten rid of my progressive and other single stage press. Buy stuff by the 1000 to get best price. Just buy what you need - press, dies, Powder scale (old balance beam), powder measure (I have an RCBS one but also use the LEE powder scoops if it's just for plinking), set of Harbor Freight calipers, case trimmer (rarely used), Never needed any type of gauges. Set the dies right move the handle fully each time and they will chamber.
I have a pretty fool proof way of checking myself since at 67 I don't fully trust my robotic skills of getting it right every time. I first size and prime. I put them in a loading block primer up so I can see every one is primed and properly seated. Next they get powder and back into the block primer down. Then a peek into each one with a flashlight to see that there is powder and not a double charge. Finally the bullet/seating and into a box. I haven't found a mistake yet but using this method makes me feel safer.

[froggy47]

Some stores, such as Midway, do not ship to 03FFL+COE holders even though it is legal for most types of ammunition. There are threads on CalGuns identifying which sellers ship to 03FFL+COE holders (Brownells, etc). There are many threads describing the steps to apply for your 03 FFl and COE. The application instructions are also available on the BATFE (03FFL-federal) and California DOJ (COE- State) websites.

THANKS!

[mshill]

I have a pretty fool proof way of checking myself since at 67 I don't fully trust my robotic skills of getting it right every time. I first size and prime. I put them in a loading block primer up so I can see every one is primed and properly seated. Next they get powder and back into the block primer down. Then a peek into each one with a flashlight to see that there is powder and not a double charge. Finally the bullet/seating and into a box. I haven't found a mistake yet but using this method makes me feel safer.

My process is nearly identical to yours. I have found a primer-less case once.