Kindergarten Bullet Resistant Shelves

[Fergie]

This is more of a penetration question than a gun question. I want to build shelves for our kindergarten class at school that a teacher can position in the corner of classroom in the event of an active shooter. It should be as bullet resistant as possible.

I want make it with materials that can be found at a hardware store and with tools in anyone's garage - so it can be recreated by anyone. It should not become a liability in itself, like the risk of falling over in an earthquake and squishing someone.

Right now the idea is to use:
* large douglas fir shelves that are 10ft long, 1 ft wide and 2 inches thick.
* 3/4 inch Iron pipe floor flanges and pipe to support the shelves
* load thick heavy books onto the bottom shelves - to create the barrier
* 2 shelves would be connected by hinges
* Handles will be attached to allow a small teacher the ability to pull it
* industrial wheels to allow movement

The idea is that a teacher can put the kids in the corner of a room and roll this into position in the corner and provide some cover for small kids on two side in an "L" shape.

Do any of you ballistic pros have any suggestions on what can be added to slow the velocity of bullets down (besides books) without breaking the bank on kevlar or other pricey hard to get items?

I know we are not stopping any armor piercing .50 cal rounds, I am just trying to add realistic protection. that can be used and made by anyone.

Thanks for all tips, suggestions and mockeries if I deserve them.

[LeadFarmer74]

1/2 or 3/8 steel plates. Velocity is what defeats modern body armor. Rounds going over 3k FPS defeat steel like its butter. If anything they should just start installing a pull away steel door that can be pulled across the doorway. But this again is a school or prison. Hard to balance the two.

[baih777]

If the nut case uses armor piercing or steel core 223. It will go right thru.
It would need to be steel plate.

It's sad now. But something like what your Thinking needs to be done.

I hope if they arm teachers, they go thru some level of training first before they carry a firearm in the school.

[Fergie]

Agreed. A good offense is the best defense. I am all for pulling cops from ticket duty to patrol schools, arming teachers, staff, starting gun clubs, teaching firearm safety in every grade etc... but this is CA and I expect resistance to the bookshelf as it is.

Anyone think fiberglass may be a good solution? I found this video and it seems like a good option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7jiIQOgwtI

this one looks too heavy made of tile and duct tape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ny7fXBZS6Bk

[JackEllis]

If you can and you're so inclined, you might also want to test OSB, plywood and fir in the same thicknesses to see which ones resist penetration better. I'm thinking the glue that's used in engineered woods might add penetration resistance but I've never done the tests myself.

Adding steel will help with penetration resistance but it also adds weight, which will make the bookcase more difficult to move into position. I'm assuming the bookcase frame will ride on locking casters, because if not, even a big teacher is going to have trouble moving a 10 foot wide bookcase with two full shelves of books across a floor.

[langss]

Someone else posted this on here a few days ago. If a 9mm will do this, you can figure out the rest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wXFf34bB34 and here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM6BOjsFx4M

[JackEllis]

I hope if they arm teachers, they go thru some level of training first before they carry a firearm in the school.

CBS had a segment on a school in Colorado where some of the teachers are now armed. The teachers that carry are largely anonymous, they're screened and trained, they're required to take recurrent training, and the one teacher who was interviewed kept his weapon (a Glock) well concealed. It turned me from an opponent of allowing concealed carry in schools to a supporter.

The thing to keep in mind is that there is no magic solution. Guards and armed teachers in schools will provide a deterrent and they may be able to stop a shooter but it's wishful thinking to believe every teacher will want to be armed or that every armed teacher will react the way we'd like to think we would or that a motivated teacher will be able to take out a shooter that will almost certainly be better armed or that kids won't be injured or killed inadvertently if there's a gunfight. Arming teachers will help tilt the odds against someone with mayhem on their mind, but it can't be the only step we take to protect schools.

[Jorenm]

CBS had a segment on a school in Colorado where some of the teachers are now armed. The teachers that carry are largely anonymous, they're screened and trained, they're required to take recurrent training, and the one teacher who was interviewed kept his weapon (a Glock) well concealed. It turned me from an opponent of allowing concealed carry in schools to a supporter.

The thing to keep in mind is that there is no magic solution. Guards and armed teachers in schools will provide a deterrent and they may be able to stop a shooter but it's wishful thinking to believe every teacher will want to be armed or that every armed teacher will react the way we'd like to think we would or that a motivated teacher will be able to take out a shooter that will almost certainly be better armed or that kids won't be injured or killed inadvertently if there's a gunfight. Arming teachers will help tilt the odds against someone with mayhem on their mind, but it can't be the only step we take to protect schools.

Only a matter of time before we have hunter-killer drones. I imagine we could build them right now, if we really wanted to. Deploy automatically when gunfire is detected. Require an approval button press to actually fire via a networked control center. Doesn't even seem that expensive, when compared to hiring actual human beings.

[Fergie]

We are Americans and we adapt, we are confident and we fight back. There is no one size fits all solution, there is only being proactive. We cannot win every fight, but we can stack the odds in our favor as much as possible and try to dissuade the lunatic.

Right now the biggest obstacle to fighting lunatics is not our will or means, but rather our liberal leadership and their propaganda machine we call the media.

[baih777]

OP,
you might to look into the ballistic door panels that are installed in police cars nowadays. or bullet proof plexiglass panel. and install these on the doors.

I imagine if you did all the designing. you might be able to start a gofundme donation for a single school. and maybe some businesses to chip in or even a contractor to donate his time.

[CaliforniaLiberal]

In my experience 2 x 4 Doug Fir is just as good as cardboard for stopping 5.56 AR15 rounds.

Maybe shooting through the spines of Encyclopedias on the shelves would be better but I bet they would still penetrate, just slowed down some.

You might have to go beyond materials available at the hardware store to stop 3,000 FPS rounds.

[floogy]

I think a heavy shelving unit that could somehow to tipped over or slid in front of the door would be the most useful. Maybe casters that can fold under to keep it from moving? Even a sturdy wedge or something that can prevent the door from being kicked open if the lock won't hold. Maintaining the integrity of the door is probably the most important defensive measure that can be taken. Even more important than being armed IMO. Even if for some crazy reason there was a .50 with API rounds, keeping that door locked would be key to survival.

In most cases, people won't shoot what they can't see. I've seen videos of bad guys not even shooting through 7/11 wire snack shelves, simply because it's blocking their view. In most cases, concealment is as good as cover against untrained criminals.

[Milsurp1]

[Lex Talionis]

Consider the effectiveness of simple sand in attenuating the energy of a projectile. Something we have used for hundreds of years.

So how about a 4 foot 'pony wall' constructed of wood and drywall in a corner of the room filled with about 8 inch thickness of sand for students to huddle and take cover behind (the classroom wall of course in that area needs the same material)? Cheap, easy to assemble, and the pony wall could be incorporated into book shelves, work table, etc. All you need to figure on is enough space for 30-35 kids and a teacher to shelter behind, and of course have shelter in place drills same as fire drills-- or the old "duck and cover" drills us old farts remember.


Something like this but a bit thicker (8 inches of sand at least). It doesn't need to be assembled or moved in a emergency. Students just move to that area and take cover.

[bazineta]

The sand idea seems like a great one, really. Here's a list of things you might find helpful:

https://www.concealedcarry.com/safety/things-that-will-stop-a-bullet-and-things-that-wont/