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The "Logic" (Ahem) Against AP Ammo

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  • TrappedinCalifornia
    Calguns Addict
    • Jan 2018
    • 9352

    The "Logic" (Ahem) Against AP Ammo

    A question came up in the Busted by Feds for selling reloaded tracers?? thread. Since the defendant was arrested and charged for selling armor-piercing ammunition without a license and since the individual who posed the question noted that it was "a side" to the actual thread, I thought I'd start a new thread addressing the question specifically.

    The question?

    Originally posted by ja308
    As a side what is the logic against AP ammo? I mean its the least lethal stuff a person could get shot with and totally unsuitable for ethical hunting !
    I'm not sure "logic" is the proper descriptor in this case. However, I think the following PDF from a search of ATF's Resource Center was interesting.

    It's entitled:



    Note that on Page 2 of the 17 page piece, there is a section headed: "LEOPA LEGISLATIVE HISTORY." Parsing portions from that section...

    ...In a hearing on one of these early bills, Senator Moynihan made clear that the intent of the bill was to ban only ammunition that both met the performance standard and was designed to be used in a handgun

    You might note that Senator Moynihan is quoted as stating...

    [L]et me make clear what this bill does not do. Our legislation would not limit the availability of standard rifle ammunition with armor-piercing capability. We recognize that soft body armor is not intended to stop high powered rifle cartridges. Time and again Congressman Biaggi and I have stressed that only bullets capable of penetrating body armor and designed to be fired from a handgun would be banned; rifle ammunition would not be covered.

    In other words, ATF is stating that while the original intent was only armor-piercing handgun ammunition, during the Legislative process, that definition was expanded into the two criteria we now have, encompassing rifle ammunition. In other words, the 17 page piece is an explanation of how they determine "sporting purposes" under the existing statute. The date of publication is unclear to me. However, there is this line at the end of the piece... ATF will carefully consider all comments, as appropriate, received on or before March 16, 2015... Thus, it appears to be tied to the SS109 and M855 cartridges controversy.

    Have fun with that.
  • #2
    ja308
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Nov 2009
    • 12660

    Moynihan HUH !
    I have headache !
    Thanx ! lol

    Comment

    • #3
      sigstroker
      I need a LIFE!!
      • Jan 2009
      • 19645

      This was supposed to protect cops wearing soft body armor, good against handgun calibers, from bad guys with concealed weapons. The silly part of it is that .223 will drill soft armor with M193 ball or even soft points. Basically any rifle round out of a handgun will, other than .22 rimfire. So the ban of AP ammo accomplishes nothing.

      edit: Actually I should say the ban on AP rifle ammo accomplishes nothing. AP pistol ammo is highly effective, just ask the Secret Service. I don't know if it's still the case, but the protection agents used to carry AP in their weapons. Bad guy with a gun behind you? SS will shoot right through you to get to the bad guy.
      Last edited by sigstroker; 02-07-2018, 9:55 PM.

      Comment

      • #4
        tophatjones
        Senior Member
        • Jan 2007
        • 1539

        Why are they still making determinations regarding whether something has a sporting purpose? Isn't that an archaic form of thinking relegated to the hoplophobic late 20th century?

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