Firearms and estate planning (Non NFA)

[RANGER295]

Recently my wife and I have been talking about needing to update/redo our will and set up a trust. My firearms collection has increased significantly in size, value, and legal complexity since our original will. I am actually a little concerned about what would happen to it should something happen to me and want to make sure that it A. is around for my boys when they are old enough and B. my family does not inadvertently end up in a legal problem.

I am thinking about having all the firearms that are legally transferable be held in trust until my boys are of age at which point they would be divided by a lottery type system. Depending on if my wife survived me, RAW's would need to be disposed of. Then, depending on what happens with current legal actions, there are LCM's to deal with.

What do you guys have in place in terms of firearms estate planning. Especially those of you with large/valuable/complicated collections? Not talking NFA here. Thanks.

[Calico1404]

Excellent thread~ anxiously awaiting responses.

[Robotron2k84]

Short answer: Gun trusts do not operate as intended due to transfer laws.

https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=765244

https://lawnews.tv/gun-trust-attorneys-issue-warning/

If user "guntrust" is still around, possibly PM.

[guntrust]

I offer a free 2-hour design meeting if you fill out my questionnaire:

http://Protect.LIFE

Can meet via webinar.

[RANGER295]

I offer a free 2-hour design meeting if you fill out my questionnaire:

http://Protect.LIFE

Can meet via webinar.

Thanks. Would this be for the whole will/estate planning or just the firearms portion?

[CAL.BAR]

I also do extensive estate planning including Firearms trust and work extensively with Calguns and the CG SSA please feel free to p.m. me for all the details and how we might be able to help you

[guntrust]

Thanks. Would this be for the whole will/estate planning or just the firearms portion?

I'm a tax attorney and i do mostly estate planning. Guns are part of your estate. To try and have a separate plan for your guns would not work very well, as proper gun planning involves all the major documents: main trust, wills, powers of attorney, etc. You might even want a gun trust, if you agree with me about the importance of leaving a legacy of firearm training. Most gun owners just want to pass on those hunks of metal rather than leaving a lasting legacy of training and for that you don't need a gun trust. But you do need flexible planning that avoids gun control at the same time it flexibly avoids taxes:



So rather than seeking a quick fix from someone hawking a gun trust that, because this is California, probably doesn't do what you and whatever attorney thinks it will do, whenever you are ready to update your plan just go to an attorney that knows comprehensive estate planning, including of course guns.

I have a quick online course on my website that will give you an idea whether you might need to update your estate plan, and as i mentioned i will meet with you at no charge for a couple hours, long enough to come up with a basic design (which we will hone later).

[splithoof]

My adult children have certain "favorites" between them, and they are planning on simply emptying the safes, and each will walk off with what they want. They understand that some are best off in our Free State location outside of California, and what neither wants they can sell. I would certainly not make some type of list, as I have no intention of anyone but them knowing exactly what it is that is being divided. A number of the items are "un-papered", and that is the way it will stay.

[guntrust]

My adult children have certain "favorites" between them, and they are planning on simply emptying the safes, and each will walk off with what they want. They understand that some are best off in our Free State location outside of California, and what neither wants they can sell. I would certainly not make some type of list, as I have no intention of anyone but them knowing exactly what it is that is being divided. A number of the items are "un-papered", and that is the way it will stay.

Why would anyone else see your "list"?

[splithoof]

Why would anyone else see your "list"?

Any "list", no matter in what form [other than only spoken between individuals, and not recorded by any means] can be "discovered" in many ways; a written list can be lost, misplaced, stolen, copied, or by other means reproduced; an electronic list can be transmitted, stored, viewed, hacked, etc. Not that those actions always happen by design (sometimes they do) but that people sometimes make mistakes and loose papers, drives, files, etc. In our unique situation, a number of the items truly are "undocumented", and by including them on a list only opens up their existence to discovery by anyone other than those who are to receive them.

[RANGER295]

I have a number that I acquired (legally) through means where there is no record of a transaction. More than half of my collection is C&R. So those are "unpapered" I am not sure what you mean by "undocumented" but to me that implies illegal. I can understand not wanting illegal items listed. I do not what to list who gets what though. I want to have each of the three boys draw a number the 1 gets to pick first then 2 then 3 then they start again until there is nothing left. The problem in my mind with making a predetermined list is that the collection evolves over time (at least mine does) and people's tastes change.

[splithoof]

More than half of my collection is C&R. So those are "unpapered" I am not sure what you mean by "undocumented" but to me that implies illegal. I can understand not wanting illegal items listed.

Undocumented/un-papered same thing. Like you, some C&R, some 80% bolt actions. Nothing illeagle, just not wanting a paper trail on something that could in the future be declared as such; we have certainly seen that here in Cali, hence the action of shipping them off to Free America while it can still be done.

[guntrust]

I have a number that I acquired (legally) through means where there is no record of a transaction. More than half of my collection is C&R. So those are "unpapered" I am not sure what you mean by "undocumented" but to me that implies illegal. I can understand not wanting illegal items listed. I do not what to list who gets what though. I want to have each of the three boys draw a number the 1 gets to pick first then 2 then 3 then they start again until there is nothing left. The problem in my mind with making a predetermined list is that the collection evolves over time (at least mine does) and people's tastes change.

Nothing illegal per se about undocumented firearms but estate plans are not self-executing. Whomever will be handling the distribution will need some sort of list/instructions.

As for "pick and choose" that's one alternative but you might want to consider having the guns held in trust so they can all use all the weapons, subject to rules on loaning, etc.

[Librarian]

I've often wondered - how does a trust, will, or whatever account for the (one hopes remote) possibility that a designated beneficiary might become a prohibited person?

[Robotron2k84]

This is just one example:

It's incumbent on the executor / administrator to determine if a beneficiary is prohibited, and if there is any doubt, then the gun ceases to be an inheritance and becomes a gift that has to be routed through a FFL for the background check.

This all assumes that there isn't a plan in place to have the surviving spouse have their FSC and take possession of all the guns in the estate, save AWs unless they are joint registered. It would then be IFT / OpLaw up to 5 transactions per year to the children and over that has to be gifted via FFL.