Vepr 12 sale possible?

[Guns and guitars]

So Ive got a vepr 12 NIB that I'm considering selling but I'm not finding favorable info. Am I basically SOL until I get out of state next year?
I was told to sell it minus the pistol grip or convert it to single shot.
What say the collective minds of CG?

[MajorSideburns]

Removing the pistol grip isn't enough, the law specifically says semi-auto shotgun with detachable magazine

[AusomeDood]

[69Mach1]

Making a semi auto shotgun with a detachable magazine featureless does not get around the problem of having a semi auto shotgun with a detachable magazine.

[69Mach1]

12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding PC section 12276, assault weapon shall also mean the following:
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder

[MajorSideburns]

Shotguns shouldn’t be affected by the new laws. They do still have to have a bullet button or made to be featureless. Removing the pistol grip does actually make it featureless. Or get a grip wrap.


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Please don't listen to this clown who has no idea what he is talking about yet is recommending you commit a felony. Read the law for yourself as 69Mach1 posted and decide for yourself how to proceed. You should know there is current ambiguity with the VEPR-12, Saiga-12 and similar because the high and mighty tyrants at DOJ decreed through their AW registration published regulations that bullet buttons were no longer considered fixed magazines in regards to semi-auto shotguns and that semi-auto shotguns with bullet button magazines were no longer considered 'fixed'. There is no actual legal standing for that, since the new passed laws seem to have overlooked the shotguns section when updating the AW penal code. The DOJ is currently being sued over this and much other overreach, but the actual law in regards to shotgun still reads as 69Mach1 posted.

See, the geniuses at Sacramento went out of their way to redefine "fixed magazine" in the law, and updated the definition to assault weapon RIFLES and PISTOLS...but overlooked shotguns for some reason

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.

(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.


(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

(b) For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.


https://oag.ca.gov/firearms

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=201520160AB1135

[AusomeDood]

Please don't listen to this clown who has no idea what he is talking about yet is recommending you commit a felony.

[nicki]

Shotguns are going to be part of lawsuits.

The new laws dealt with rifles.
The Cal DOJ just added them to the regulations.

So since the "Law" didn't specifically address "Shotguns", that will be challenged in the courts.

In the meantime, I would treat semi auto shotguns just like semi auto rifles.

For shotgun owners who have shotguns with "Maglocks", if you are to keep the shotgun in this state you will either have to:

1. Register it as a RAW
2. Remove it permanently from the state.
3. See if a "fix" similar to what is being done for AK's becomes available.
While the "fix" complies with the law, it makes reloading a real pain.

Nicki

[Guns and guitars]

Thanks for your replies...
Counting down the days until I can get the hell out of this state.

Just hoping to sell it prior. It boggles my mind how I can legally purchase a weapon I am not allowed to sell, or have now.

[SloChicken]

This ought to help confuse things.

I have a converted Saiga 12 and would never get rid of mne, but would probably buy another - problem being ... California.

I ran a poll on this question a few months ago. U can see how many views, and how many votes.
Even still it is about as unclear as possble.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1349756

Mine - decidedly not for sale.

[MajorSideburns]

Sorry the temper got the best of me but you are just casually telling a guy who has no idea that if he installs a grip wrap he will be fine, which is very incorrect. Who does that? What type of person feels the need to chime in and give advice like it is gospel about something they are not 100% certain of when a felony is on the line? There is no and has NEVER been a featureless option for magazine fed semi-auto shotguns. The penal code 69Mach1 cited has been active since January 1st, 2000, this is not new or updated material. The recent laws rewrote the statues for rifles and pistols, not shotguns.

Let me guess, your VEPR-12 is currently configured with a featureless wrap, which you will surely explain away to an arresting officer by telling them it "shouldn't be affected by the new laws"...

I love how I’m a clown, to somebody who’s never even met me. [emoji849]

Anyway, the last I knew, that was the case. It’s not my fault the people in Sacramento keep changing their minds. I don’t know how people are selling VEPR’s and Saiga’s then, even on this board.

OP; best I can say is to just keep the thing for now and wait until the stupid law is more clear. Go out and shoot it. Who knows; maybe you’ll like it. I love mine.



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[AusomeDood]

Sorry the temper got the best of me but you are just casually telling a guy who has no idea that if he installs a grip wrap he will be fine, which is very incorrect.

[MajorSideburns]

Actually, if you had researched, you’d see that there was a time when it was said to be ok. The legislation didn’t originally include shotguns. Even the comments in this very thread have alluded to it. Click on the links here and follow the trails and you’ll see that, originally, featureless semi-auto shotguns were in fact ok.

Hahahahah...if I had researched? Why are you doubling down when you have already been shown the correct information? Please cite your sources of legislation, by all means.

For anyone else reading who might be uncertain, like the original poster, yeah, this is extremely and completely and absolutely wrong. There has never been a "featureless" option for detachable magazine fed semi-auto shotguns, unless we go back to before any of the assault weapon ban laws before January 1, 2000. You are the one who needs to go back and research, then probably modify your current shotgun to comply and thank the stars you weren't caught by LEO with your "featureless" VEPR-12. The law has stated that a detachable magazine fed semi-automatic shotgun is an assault weapon. The only features there are semi-automatic shotgun and detachable magazine. Hence why the only way to legally buy VEPR-12 was with a bullet button installed, rendering the magazine 'fixed'. The new statutes from July 2016, AB1135 and SB880 rewrote the definition for 'fixed' magazine to specifically exclude the "bullet button" under the sections for rifles and pistols, by updating the definition to require disassembly of the firearm's action. These bills did not include this updated definition of 'fixed magazine' for shotguns. The DOJ released regulations they made up for their assault weapon registration webpage. In these regulations, they made up a definition of assault weapon semi-auto shotguns that includes a requirement for disassembly of the action to remove magazines. This is not law, but their made-up definition of what is an assault weapon that 'must be registered' on their site. It is not law, it was clearly forgotten or omitted in the actual bills. And it uses the same 17 year old definition of semi-automatic shotgun with detachable magazine. A pistol grip has nothing to do with the assault weapon status for a VEPR-12.

The fact remains that nobody really knows what is correct or not. We have to wait and see.

People who pay attention and fear going to jail for making an illegal weapon know what is correct, since nothing has changed in the last 17 years.
12276.1 (a) Notwithstanding PC section 12276, assault weapon shall also mean the following:
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
If you add a silly looking fin grip to a semi-automatic shotgun that takes a detachable magazine, is it still a semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine? If you have a non-pistol grip monte carlo stocked Saiga-12, is it magically no longer a semiautomatic shotgun with the ability to accept a detachable magazine? Can it be anymore clear?

I don't know how much more clear it can be spelled out to you. Go read the laws 10 times thoroughly, and if you have a "featureless grip wrapped VEPR-12" without a magazine lock, you better tend to it...but who knows... you "should be ok.

Just in case, let me spell it out for you a few more times:

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.

[Nicoman]

So Ive got a vepr 12 NIB that I'm considering selling but I'm not finding favorable info. Am I basically SOL until I get out of state next year?
I was told to sell it minus the pistol grip or convert it to single shot.
What say the collective minds of CG?

Hang on to it when you move form 1 and enjoy your short barreled vepr 12. I have a 12.5'' V12 and it's pretty fun to shoot.

Heres mine

[Guns and guitars]

Hang on to it when you move form 1 and enjoy your short barreled vepr 12. I have a 12.5'' V12 and it's pretty fun to shoot.

Heres mine

Very nice!
Yes that was the original plan when I bought it. Counting down the days.
Love the wood on the veprs!