Southwest Firearm Check In Experience at OAK

[nszzya]

I was flying Southwest out of OAK last Saturday 8/5/17. I declared my handgun at the counter. It was unloaded with two loaded magazines in a locked container. The agent told me that I had to wait 15 minutes near the ticket counter and then check with her before going to the gate. On three prior occasions within the last year, there was no requirement to wait before going to the gate.

Within about 10 minutes, I was paged overhead to return to the ticket counter. As I was waiting as instructed, I was already sitting near the counter and made my way to the waiting agent in front of the counter. He directed me to another Southwest agent and two Alameda County Sheriff's deputies. They asked for the combination to my locked case. They said they were unable to scan it as it was "shielded" (It's a SnapSafe and it's been scanned there before. It has just enough room for the firearm and two magazines). I gave them the combination. I asked if I could be present when they opened it and was denied.

After a few minutes, the deputies returned. They told me that next time the magazines should be empty even though there was no magazine in the firearm, "The magazine is part of the gun right?" and that the ammo should be in a separate container locked within a container.

I reviewed Southwest ammo policy (bold mine):

Ammunition
* • Small arms ammunition for personal use (provided it is properly packed) is permissible in checked baggage only.
* • The ammunition may be placed in the same container as the firearm and must be securely packed in cardboard (fiber), wood, or metal boxes, or other packaging specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
* • When checking ammunition, Customers are limited to 11 pounds gross weight (ammunition plus container) per person.
* • Magazines or clips containing ammunition must be securely packaged (placed in another small box or in a secure cutout in the carrying case, in order to protect the primer of the ammunition).
* • Make sure guns are unloaded and definitely never transport a gun in your carryon baggage!
* • Gunpowder (black powder) and primers or percussion caps are not allowed in checked or carryon baggage.
* • Loose ammunition or loose loaded magazines and/or clips are not allowed.
* • Paintballs must be packaged in a leak-proof container and will be conditionally accepted.

It seems like I was in compliance with loaded magazines securely placed in a foam lined carrying case.

I'm posting this for others who may be traveling out of OAK as well as to solicit opinions regarding my interpretation of the ammo requirements.

[CJJohn]

Alameda Sheriffs should not have even been involved, and to my understanding asked you to commit a felony. I've checked many times, this is a TSA issue, not local PD.
From the TSA website:
• Firearms must be unloaded and locked in a hard-sided container and transported as checked baggage only. Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations.


But that is my understanding, others will chime in I'm sure....

[BigPimping]

This is the reason why I would not bring a firearm anywhere near an airport. There's literally no reason that would be worth that much hassle.

[Gryff]

Alameda Sheriffs should not have even been involved, and to my understanding asked you to commit a felony.

I don't think you're breaking the law by giving a sworn LEO access to your firearm. They have the authority to take/retain possession of it during a criminal investigation, so I would imagine that authority transfers over to an inspection.

On the other hand, the standard TSA Agent is NOT a sworn LEO. They can pound sand before I'll give them access to my firearms without me present because I will not allow an unqualified individual access to my guns. I have no problems handing my keys over to an actual cop, though. (I got in a pissing match with TSA over this one time. They wanted my case keys to inspect behind a secure door. I told them to take me with them...they said they weren't authorized to allow me access. I told them that they can't be authorized to handle my firearms, but not be authorized to allow me to witness it. I eventually won, but they were pissed.)

As for ammo in the mags, that's allowed if you meet the requirements (protecting the primer), but getting into a debate with cops who have already said that you can go on your way is not the wisest of decisions.

One thing to note though. The TSA regs are ambiguous enough that you could think that a bulk ammo can is acceptable. It's not (I found out the hard way traveling to a national competition). They want each round isolated from the rest so that there is no chance of primer detonation if the rounds get jostled.

[edgerly779]

Complete BS from sheriffs TSA issue not them. You have to be present when firearm inspected. Couple officers who should have spent more time on books then eating donuts. You do not surrender combo to anyone you open and close case. Ammo in mags fine with firearm.

[CJJohn]

I don't think you're breaking the law by giving a sworn LEO access to your firearm. They have the authority to take/retain possession of it during a criminal investigation, so I would imagine that authority transfers over to an inspection.

On the other hand, the standard TSA Agent is NOT a sworn LEO. They can pound sand before I'll give them access to my firearms without me present because I will not allow an unqualified individual access to my guns. I have no problems handing my keys over to an actual cop, though. (I got in a pissing match with TSA over this one time. They wanted my case keys to inspect behind a secure door. I told them to take me with them...they said they weren't authorized to allow me access. I told them that they can't be authorized to handle my firearms, but not be authorized to allow me to witness it. I eventually won, but they were pissed.)

As for ammo in the mags, that's allowed if you meet the requirements (protecting the primer), but getting into a debate with cops who have already said that you can go on your way is not the wisest of decisions.

One thing to note though. The TSA regs are ambiguous enough that you could think that a bulk ammo can is acceptable. It's not (I found out the hard way traveling to a national competition). They want each round isolated from the rest so that there is no chance of primer detonation if the rounds get jostled.

I don't know about Alameda County, but I got paged back to counter in Charlotte NC when I left for my checked weapon, United agent wanted my key, got through that, she takes me to TSA where I had a very similar event happen, he wanted key to inspect and "insure" it's unloaded. I denied him my key quoting regs, he didn't care, I even got 2 Charlotte PD to corroborate what I was telling him, and STILL didn't care, and basically said so. The final outcome was him inspecting my weapon in a secure area but where I could see him and watch what he was doing. I left him my printed TSA regs that I carry when I travel. I'm sure he read them

[CJJohn]

This is the reason why I would not bring a firearm anywhere near an airport. There's literally no reason that would be worth that much hassle.

To be honest, it's not that much hassle. 99% of the time it's very simple. LAX, surprisingly, has been one of the easiest. 2 weeks ago I went to San Antonio and the United agent remembered me. All in all a very pleasant experience. The ONLY issue I have ever had was in Charlotte and it was clearly an ego issue.

[71MUSTY]

I flew American Airlines from Ont to Dallas and back with no real issues.

At Ontario after the Ticket Agent gave me the Affidavit to sigh and place on top of my firearm she put the red special handling tag on my bag she proceeded to print my ticket. Then said "Sir you don't need to check that bag, it's small enough for carry on" I said "Really, with a firearm?" She said "Oh that's right" and took the bag to check.

Point being someone traveling with a firearm was such a non event she totally forgot about it less then a few minutes later.

In Dallas the only hitch was the Agent had to ask the Agent next to her what how to process it.

Really nobody cared. Maybe you guys should work on looking less sinister.

[JDHCA]

Last time I flew to Dallas and back:

San Francisco/Virgin: Declared my firearm. She set my suitcase aside on a table and had me wait for a TSA agent who wanted me to unlock my suitcase, then he wanted me to open the pistol sized gun safe. I had a loaded mag inside. Surprisingly he just looked at the gun, never checked to see if it was loaded, then had me lock it, then put their little tag inside the suitcase, locked it and away it went. No drama at all.

Love Field/Virgin on the return: Declared the gun, the lady at the counter had me sign that it was unloaded put the tag in the suitcase. She wanted me to leave the suitcase unlocked for the TSA as it didn't have a TSA lock so I put it on the suitcase but didn't lock it. No one ever had me open the gun safe. When I got it at SFO it was locked and nothing was amiss.

I suspicion next time I go something different will happen.

[JackEllis]

I've taken rifles through SFO (twice) and Reno (once). At SFO I have to help the agent who checks my bags because they apparently don't see many firearms and some of the contract folks who work in the International Terminal are nearly clueless. The TSA folks have never been a problem

If you want to talk about places where checking a firearm is time-consuming, lemme tell you about Africa...

[Wallflood]

This is the reason why I would not bring a firearm anywhere near an airport. There's literally no reason that would be worth that much hassle.

Being able to defend myself, train, or work are all good enough reasons for me.

As well, exercising our 2A freedoms is good enough reason for me. And the more people who do it, the more it becomes the norm as it should.

As for gun value, Glocks can be had all day long and I have zero attachment to any gun other than doing work. Carrying TSA/airline regs might avert an incident like this but debatable. I say keep flying with them, and thanks to those who've been doing it awhile. Hopefully it won't be a big deal in Oakland someday.

And who knows, maybe there'll be a 2A victory in CA in the future.

[epilepticninja]

Complete BS from sheriffs TSA issue not them. You have to be present when firearm inspected. Couple officers who should have spent more time on books then eating donuts. You do not surrender combo to anyone you open and close case. Ammo in mags fine with firearm.

This. ALWAYS print out the airline policy and TSA policy and have it with you. Don't go all airport lawyer on them, but at least present the info too them. They may want to hear it/read it, or they may ignore it. At least you have it though in writing in case **** goes south.

[BigPimping]

I have quite a bit of attachment to my Glocks. They all are unique and different Generations. I wouldn't want to lose any of them.

[R Dale]

The Federal gov needs to impose strict requirements on how the TSA is to handle weapons so that the airline or the local LE has no say in how you transport weapons. The only thing the TSA should be able to do is determine if the weapon and ammo is packed according to Federal regulations.

[liberty47]

Sucks op, I have flown twice with southwest no issues, but both times the mags were empty and ammunition in its original box.