Russian Saigas

[jumbopanda]

anyone have one of these?

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=55876783

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=55876026

brand new russian saiga rifles with conventional rifle stock
available in 7.62x39, .308, and .223 and 16 and 20 inch barrel lengths, reasonably priced too.

They look pretty nice, anyone know how well they shoot?

[VeryCoolCat]

Saigas are currently "banned by name" and the area is too gray of an area... you will risk being prosecuted and although you will probably win.... its too risky as the receiver is stamped SAIGA and people have already been attacked by the state for having saiga rifles.

That being said.... according to other forums... they shoot great and have the reliability of an ak47.

[jumbopanda]

really? i just checked section 12276 (As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms: (a) All of the following specified rifles...) and did a Ctrl+F search for "saiga" and did not find anything. I also checked to see if it was on the AK/AR list and did not find the importers EAA, RAA, or the russian factory (izhmash) listed.

[50 Freak]

Do a search here. It's been discussed in depht. But the quick skinny on it is: Saigas are too "gray area".

I keep on suggesting getting the VEPR's are they are not named at all and are better quality than the Saigas anyday.

[jumbopanda]

but veprs are expensive, and they all have pistol grips/thumbhole stocks. and i cant just replace the grip because the triggers are not moved back like saigas

[VeryCoolCat]

Yea the other solution is to purchase a VEPR in .308 purchase a Saiga trigger group (lots of people convert their saigas to pistol gripped version and sell the saiga trigger group) then drill a hole into the receiver of the vepr and attach the trigger group further back, then add on a saiga stock.

BTW before the saiga... there was the "chinese hunting rifle" same design... thats also banned.

Since Izmash is where the ak originates and "Kalishnikov USA" never released a saiga rifle. Any DA will say that its the Saiga thats banned..... If you want to be the DOJ and our test case. Go right ahead. We'd all appreciate it though that we could finally get an answer.

[Charliegone]

but veprs are expensive, and they all have pistol grips/thumbhole stocks. and i cant just replace the grip because the triggers are not moved back like saigas

Don't worry, I've personally shot it an ak without the grip and it isn't as bad some say. In fact, it didn't really bother me at all at the range...I wish I could say the same for the m44 my uncle took...man that thing kicks AND its loud! Just replace the thumbhole stock with a regular buttstock.

[-hanko]

Saigas are currently "banned by name" and the area is too gray of an area... you will risk being prosecuted and although you will probably win.... its too risky as the receiver is stamped SAIGA and people have already been attacked by the state for having saiga rifles.

That being said.... according to other forums... they shoot great and have the reliability of an ak47.

I'm 'taking the risk' with 3 Saiga's right now. No evil features. They're great shooters and as tough as anvils.

-hanko

[dmckean44]

RAA an EAA Saigas are no more of a grey area than any off-list weapon. I don't buy the arguments against getting one in other threads.

[metalhead357]

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf

PDF~ page 22 listed under Hunter rifle. Saiga is IMO not even a gray area...its a no-go, and a definite chance to have your very own DOJ agents come knocking at either your or your FFL's door....just like the Colt deal when this all started.......

Your money, your decision about your own freedom if you're wrong

"safe" money bet on another brand that is truly Off list.........

[bwiese]

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2006.pdf

PDF~ page 22 listed under Hunter rifle

That document does not have the force of law - it's a 'guide', for courtesy. It has the same legal force as the 50+ pg DMV handbook - you'll get a ticket on the Vehicle Code, not the writeup in the

What guns are, and are not, banned are strictly in the Calif Code of Regulation, sec. 5495 & 5499 (formerly CCR 979.10, 979.11), which contains an echo of the orig Roberti-Roos guns too.

Kalashnikov USA Hunter Rifle/Saiga is listed, while RAAs are not.

There is one attempted prosecution for a non-KalashnikovUSA Saiga in Santa Clara county but I think that will fall by the wayside - I've heard that Kilmer and others are laughing at it - the DA doesn't know what is/isn't an AW.

[metalhead357]

Bill, good catch...right sentiment but wrong PDF on my behalf in my haste Now theres that keen I I've grown accusomed to .

PS> let us know about that case's dispostition, certainly works in all our favors if DA's are essentially going on record as either not knowing what is what or some refuse to prosecute wile others proceed.............

[bwiese]

Bill, good catch...right sentiment but wrong PDF on my behalf in my haste Now theres that keen I I've grown accusomed to .

PS> let us know about that case's dispostition, certainly works in all our favors if DA's are essentially going on record as either not knowing what is what or some refuse to prosecute wile others proceed.............

Will keep u posted.

Date keeps getting pushed off, prosecution probably hoping for a plea - hahaha. Case has been handed, apparently, down several times, dunno why it's not dropped. The orig DV charges went away.

From what I've heard the recent Deputy DA in SCC DA office handling this doesn't know sh** from shinola. She also appears to have suppressed a crime lab report indicating it was not an AW and instead relying on a document stating there was no conclusion. That should get sanctions in my book - and perhaps a Brady-like motion could be successfully filed requiring DA office to admit to all prior AW chargees in Sta Clara county they may have been misprosecuted since they themselves don't know what an AW is

At this point I wouldn't recommend to others they get a Saiga due to this handwaving, but I myself would have no problem owning one. Perhaps I should get one just to say I have one - or maybe I should offer to buy the ones in SCC evidence locker from the Deputy DA handling the case, since it is indeed legal

[-hanko]

Saiga is IMO not even a gray area...its a no-go, and a definite chance to have your very own DOJ agents come knocking at either your or your FFL's door....just like the Colt deal when this all started.......

Your money, your decision about your own freedom if you're wrong

"safe" money bet on another brand that is truly Off list.........

Something I checked before I purchased them. Nice to count on a thorough (yet not particularly needed) analysis of prk gunlaws here. They are confusing. Banned weapons show up in the CCR as Bill was kind enough to point out.

Prof. Wiese's concurrence is reassuring.

-hanko

[BigMac]

I'm waiting with baited breath on that case... I have a particular interest in that one.

Depending on it's outcome, I will open the flood gates.

Stay tuned.