sheriffs hold muzzle loader

[tackdriver]

has anyone had to deal with a sheriffs hold with black powder muzzleloaders?
I see what forms I need with a firearm with a serial number, but these don't have one. I wouldn't think a hold was necessary, but it seems it is.

These are in the El Centro office

Thanks!

[DrewN]

Not firearms AFAIK. Not that they will see it that way though, I'm sure.

[pacrat]

Muzzle loaders are not classified as "firearms". So if you are looking for release from their custody a LEGR is not required. More info on your part would result in more concise answers.

Good Luck BTW. Ray Loera is a Dick. He was an OK guy until he got elected Sheriff. I knew him when he was a Deputy back in the 70s.



JM2c

[Hairball]

While not classified as firearms in regards to purchase, they are when it comes to carrying them. Sounds like there is more to the story...

[tackdriver]

yeah. That's what im trying to find out. I know that no FFL is needed and you know one isn't needed but im trying to find something to prove it to them. They are of no help. I can just see myself driving a 100 miles to pick up my guns and then have them decide not to give them to me

[baih777]

Why did they end up with them in the first place. The outcome is depending on why they have them.

[tackdriver]

I had a medical emergency and they towed my car with them inside. 5 days and $600 later, i got my car back

[RickD427]

Gents,

The OP's Black Powder weapon most definitely is a firearm for the purpose of the release, and a LEGR is required.

Please do not be confused by the fact that a muzzle loading black powder weapon is not a firearm for the purpose of purchasing.

Please see the OP's other thread on this same topic for the details: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1342819

[baih777]

you should contact the NRA attorney. if you are a NRA member have your membership ID to give them. Depending on your situation, they might just be able to call the PD to get the details of your case.

http://michellawyers.com/attorney-profile/joseph-a-silvoso-iii/

I would call asap. the attorney might not get back to you for a few days if he is in court.

[2Aallday]

El Centro exists to issue tickets to traffic between CA and AZ. Total 'hole.

[Quiet]

Under CA laws...

blackpowder muzzle loading firearms are classified as "antique firearms". [PC 16170]

"antique firearms" are only exempt from some CA firearm laws. [PC 16520(d)]




Penal Code 16170
(a) As used in Sections 30515 and 30530, “antique firearm” means any firearm manufactured before January 1, 1899.
(b) As used in Section 16520, Section 16650, subdivision (a) of Section 23630, paragraph (1) of subdivision (b) of Section 27505, and subdivision (a) of Section 31615, “antique firearm” has the same meaning as in Section 921(a)(16) of Title 18 of the United States Code.
(c) As used in Section 17700, “antique firearm” means either of the following:
(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898. This includes any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.
(2) Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

Penal Code 16520
(a) As used in this part, “firearm” means a device, designed to be used as a weapon, from which is expelled through a barrel, a projectile by the force of an explosion or other form of combustion.
(d) As used in the following provisions, “firearm” does not include an unloaded antique firearm:
(1) Subdivisions (a) and (c) of Section 16730.
(2) Section 16550.
(3) Section 16960.
(4) Section 17310.
(5) Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 26350) of Division 5 of Title 4.
(6) Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 26400) of Division 5 of Title 4.
(7) Sections 26500 to 26588, inclusive.
(8) Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive.
(9) Section 27510.
(10) Section 27530.
(11) Section 27540.
(12) Section 27545.
(13) Sections 27555 to 27585, inclusive.
(14) Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive.
(15) Section 25135.
(16) Section 29180.

[pacrat]

Gents,

The OP's Black Powder weapon most definitely is a firearm for the purpose of the release, and a LEGR is required.

Please do not be confused by the fact that a muzzle loading black powder weapon is not a firearm for the purpose of purchasing.

Please see the OP's other thread on this same topic for the details: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1342819

It is impossible for the OP to meet the requirements of LEGR for his firearms. [NO SER #S].

Under CA laws...

blackpowder muzzle loading firearms are classified as "antique firearms". [PC 16170]

"antique firearms" are only exempt from some CA firearm laws. [PC 16520(d)]

Penal Code 16170Penal Code 16520
(1) Subdivisions (a) and (c) of Section 16730.
(2) Section 16550.
(3) Section 16960.
(4) Section 17310.
(5) Chapter 6 (commencing with Section 26350) of Division 5 of Title 4.
(6) Chapter 7 (commencing with Section 26400) of Division 5 of Title 4.
(7) Sections 26500 to 26588, inclusive.
(8) Sections 26700 to 26915, inclusive.
(9) Section 27510.
(10) Section 27530.
(11) Section 27540.
(12) Section 27545.
(13) Sections 27555 to 27585, inclusive.
(14) Sections 29010 to 29150, inclusive.
(15) Section 25135.
(16) Section 29180.

You are saying that since pc16520 [d] does not include an exemption specified by the other listed PCs therein. An antique is considered a firearm for the purpose of LEGR. Even though it is impossible to meet the requirements of LEGR. Just as it is for untold MILLIONS of firearms manufactured before GCA 1968?

So once again it boils down to State mandated theft of law abiding citizens firearms by LE. Even if they never broke a law.

Is it any wonder that millions more law abiding citizens every year no longer perceive cops as their friends and protectors? And instead see them as oppressors trolling for citizens to victimize at the behest of their political masters.

Long past time for cops to nut up and refuse to enforce unjust laws under "PC sect" [4].

[RickD427]

It is impossible for the OP to meet the requirements of LEGR for his firearms. [NO SER #S].



You are saying that since pc16520 [d] does not include an exemption specified by the other listed PCs therein. An antique is considered a firearm for the purpose of LEGR. Even though it is impossible to meet the requirements of LEGR. Just as it is for untold MILLIONS of firearms manufactured before GCA 1968?

So once again it boils down to State mandated theft of law abiding citizens firearms by LE. Even if they never broke a law.

Is it any wonder that millions more law abiding citizens every year no longer perceive cops as their friends and protectors? And instead see them as oppressors trolling for citizens to victimize at the behest of their political masters.

Long past time for cops to nut up and refuse to enforce unjust laws under "PC sect" [4].

Pacrat,

I'm not sure that the lack of a Serial Number precludes an LEGR release. I don't have knowledge on the point one way or the other. In the other thread on this subject I've invited Calgunner's with specific knowledge on the point to chime in.

There is nothing in statute that prevents DOJ from registering a weapon without a Serial Number (even though that would be a pretty much useless action).

[tackdriver]

Thanks guys. Good info as usual RickD! I think im ready to send in my paperwork. Ive included a note explaining the BP issue. I have receipts for them, one of the rifles does not have a serial number. I also am sending that BOF form 4542A that Tony mentioned. This is for a lower assembly that I purchased before 2014.
Piss poor information on the DOJ site. Gotta love the government.

[Narutakikun]

I ordered my muzzleloader from Bud's Gun Shop online and they shipped it directly to my door, no sheriff or FFL involved. That seems like a good way to handle things.