Quick safety video.

[DA/SA]

Do what I say, not what I do.
Distractions are dangerous, remember the rules, always.
Watch a hot shell go down my shirt, watch me cover my foot.
The trigger was being managed consciously, but still: Safety first, then the hot shell. It requires training to overcome autonomous response.
Best.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jA6TfhTtAbk

[sonofeugene]

Wear Hawaiian shirts and flip flops. A quick flick of either easily dislodges hot shells.

[Win231]

"The trigger was being managed??" Not to my lyin' eyes. Your finger was on the trigger & the hammer was still cocked. You're lucky you still have 10 toes.

I've had a hot case land on my eyelid, held in place by my glasses. I managed to keep my finger off trigger & safe direction. That's managing the trigger.

[MosinVirus]

Yeah, I am kind of surprised you had absolutely no problem moving your muzzle around.

I think first things first you should keep the gun pointing down range.

I have been hit with brass, bullet shavings from guys with revolvers next to me (much more painful than hot brass), etc. Guns always stayed pointed down range.

[sarbiker]

[QUOTE=DA/SA;20050177]Do what I say, not what I do.
Distractions are dangerous, remember the rules, always.
Watch a hot shell go down my shirt, watch me cover my foot.
The trigger was being managed consciously, but still: Safety first, then the hot shell. It requires training to overcome autonomous response.
Best.


I think you need to learn what trigger management is.

[Merc1138]

Uhh...

You weren't "managing" the trigger. Massaging it maybe. Perhaps next time try... putting the gun down first? Or actually getting your finger off of the trigger at the very least.

[CoopsDad]

It's awesome that you offered yourself up like this- using the phrase "trigger management" describing something that is clearly anything but. Unless you meant that you "managed not to squeeze the trigger".

You either have very thick skin or you're looking to build a callous over what you have.

At least you didn't proclaim yourself to be the only person in the building professional enough to handle a Glock Fo-tay.

[AceGirlsHusband]

Uhh...

.... Perhaps next time try... putting the gun down first? ...

+1 for this! Lay it down, muzzle down range.

[Merc1138]

It's awesome that you offered yourself up like this- using the phrase "trigger management" describing something that is clearly anything but. Unless you meant that you "managed not to squeeze the trigger".

You either have very thick skin or you're looking to build a callous over what you have.

At least you didn't proclaim yourself to be the only person in the building professional enough to handle a Glock Fo-tay.

I think the OPs issue is simply that he/she doesn't understand that the severity of the safety issue in the video, that they were hoping was a learning experience, goes beyond sweeping your own body parts with the muzzle.

Just so it's clear to the OP, that video is an example of why the thought of going to a range like targetmasters is a terrible idea. You're right that there's a certain amount of training of your own brain that needs to be done, but the reality is that it's not particularly difficult to build a habit of at least keeping your finger off of the trigger unless you're shooting. Then there's the issue of waving the gun around inexplicably. Yeah, there's hot brass and other things flying at the range some times, you need to control your firearm and worry about a piece of brass later.

Finger off the trigger.
Point in safe direction.
Put gun down.
Then deal with your hot brass or whatever.

It's entirely possible that by the time you handle that same situation properly next time, the brass will have cooled off already anyway.

[Win231]

It would be amusing if it weren't so dangerous.
Reminded me of my favorite show - "Married With Children."
Kelly Bundy would do something sleazy with some guy, then she'd say to her father: "I'm a good girl, daddy."

[DA/SA]

To clarify:

We train so our autonomous responses do not get the better of us. I had a hot shell burning me and melting light my synthetic shirt (it was over 100 degrees outside). I was well-aware of my trigger, it hadn't reset - I can hear it reset as I put it down, and a second shot wasn't going to fire unless I intentionally wanted it to. The trigger before reset is safer than the trigger after reset, and waving-around a once fired and cocked DA/SA auto is safer before the trigger resets - especially in a self-defense situation where a good grip is required and a second shot is imminent or de-cock requires a compromised grip.
This wasn't as big a deal as it might look to some.

I'm not saying that what I did was the right thing to do, and it most likely will never happen again because of this experience. Without the slow-motion, this happens very quickly, and it really wasn't dangerous until I bent over more, and even then. My purpose in posting was to give an example of how your autonomous mind can easily control or distract your conscious mind. When it happens to you, you'll immediately remember this post, and possibly save yourself or your neighbor from hurt.

I had the stones to post this to help my community, not to take abuse from people with little to no experience trying to set the tone of my message. If you troll, post something of yourself doing something positive (or even negative) as a helpful example. I bet none of you trollers can - or can you? Show us and redeem yourself, or thank me for trying to help you. Never mock someone who is trying to teach you something. It exhibits ignorance and self-importance.

[MosinVirus]

To clarify:

We train so our autonomous responses do not get the better of us. I had a hot shell burning me and melting light my synthetic shirt (it was over 100 degrees outside). I was well-aware of my trigger, it hadn't reset - I can hear it reset as I put it down, and a second shot wasn't going to fire unless I intentionally wanted it to. The trigger before reset is safer than the trigger after reset, and waving-around a once fired and cocked DA/SA auto is safer before the trigger resets - especially in a self-defense situation where a good grip is required and a second shot is imminent or de-cock requires a compromised grip.
This wasn't as big a deal as it might look to some.

I'm not saying that what I did was the right thing to do, and it most likely will never happen again because of this experience. Without the slow-motion, this happens very quickly, and it really wasn't dangerous until I bent over more, and even then. My purpose in posting was to give an example of how your autonomous mind can easily control or distract your conscious mind. When it happens to you, you'll immediately remember this post, and possibly save yourself or your neighbor from hurt.

I had the stones to post this to help my community, not to take abuse from people with little to no experience trying to set the tone of my message. If you troll, post something of yourself doing something positive (or even negative) as a helpful example. I bet none of you trollers can - or can you? Show us and redeem yourself, or thank me for trying to help you. Never mock someone who is trying to teach you something. It exhibits ignorance and self-importance.

Dude, you are not in a self defense situation. You are at a range where there are very simple and specific safety rules.

Also, I am not an expert, I have no training, and I don't claim to be a know-it-all.

I will attempt to explain why I had an issue with your original post, which I had already stated...

It did take a lot of guts to post the video and show yourself breaking one of the most important safety rules. I do give you that. But, then you try to make it sound as if that was still ok because you were still squeezing the trigger, as if your concious mind was in play for that but not for keeping the gun pointed down range...

I would obviously prefer to not see that at all, but because I believe the message is valid, especially if you are not a new shooter and perhaps a shooter with training. Something like "I couldn't believe that I did that!!! And I know better than that! But the point is that it can happen, so be aware."

And I know stuff happens. I posted a video on YouTube recently where a guy next to me had no idea how to manipulate his handguns' controls so he was pointing rhe things at me, at himself, etc... I didnt see thst until I was editing the video together. But I guess that can be expected from new shooters since for some reason our country with 2nd amendment rights available to all law abiding citizens (of age) doesn't believe in making firearm education be a part of high school curriculum...

I will tell you my most embarrassing "new shooter" incident... I have handled rifles before... I was shooting my first semi auto handgun, and I had a failure to return to battery. Being new to handguns I smacked the slide forward with the palm of my support hand, without thinking of getting my trigger finger out of the trigger guard area (obviously the trigger was reset and my finger was on it, which is going to help your point above). Well, smacking something while trying to hold onto it caused a reflex of tightening the grip, I squeezed the trigger, gun fires, and the slide hits the palm of my hand, rear sight taking skin off, and my support hand is now bleeding and throbbing, and I feel like a jackass. But the gun is still pointing down range.

...The gun was pointed down range at all times and I actually hit my target when the shot went off, not the ceiling, not the floor, not the walls...

Done deal. I made a mistake, but because the gun was pointed down range, I didn't cause any more serious damage.

I guess the simplest way I can say it is... if you had lost awareness of where you are pointing the gun, it is hard to believe that you had control of something else. Perhaps I am wrong, but I would rather see someone accidentally double tap a gun that is pointed in a safe direction than see that gun being waved around...

[CouchOperator]

"Play safely"

This tells me everything i need to know about your mindset. Lemme know whenever you are in my zip code so i can travel far away

[Merc1138]

To clarify:

We train so our autonomous responses do not get the better of us. I had a hot shell burning me and melting light my synthetic shirt (it was over 100 degrees outside). I was well-aware of my trigger, it hadn't reset - I can hear it reset as I put it down, and a second shot wasn't going to fire unless I intentionally wanted it to. The trigger before reset is safer than the trigger after reset, and waving-around a once fired and cocked DA/SA auto is safer before the trigger resets - especially in a self-defense situation where a good grip is required and a second shot is imminent or de-cock requires a compromised grip.
This wasn't as big a deal as it might look to some.

I'm not saying that what I did was the right thing to do, and it most likely will never happen again because of this experience. Without the slow-motion, this happens very quickly, and it really wasn't dangerous until I bent over more, and even then. My purpose in posting was to give an example of how your autonomous mind can easily control or distract your conscious mind. When it happens to you, you'll immediately remember this post, and possibly save yourself or your neighbor from hurt.

I had the stones to post this to help my community, not to take abuse from people with little to no experience trying to set the tone of my message. If you troll, post something of yourself doing something positive (or even negative) as a helpful example. I bet none of you trollers can - or can you? Show us and redeem yourself, or thank me for trying to help you. Never mock someone who is trying to teach you something. It exhibits ignorance and self-importance.

So you really are the sort of person that makes me want to wear plates to the range, wonderful.

Wasn't a big deal? It's a massive deal. The fact that you can't get that through your head is mind boggling. You're randomly waving around a gun because of a hot piece of brass(which happens to lots of other people, and they manage to handle the situation in a safe manner), and come back to post about the brass melting your shirt as if that's the more important problem than your finger on the trigger while waving a gun around randomly at a range?

You know what's safer than waving around a DA/SA semiauto pistol while holding the trigger back?

PUTTING IT DOWN.

"self defense situation" at the range? There was no "self defense situation" in that video, and even if you actually were in a situation where you were defending yourself, are you now going to claim that it's important to deal with a hot piece of brass first? ffs...

[Mitch]

I was well-aware of my trigger, it hadn't reset - I can hear it reset as I put it down, and a second shot wasn't going to fire unless I intentionally wanted it to.

You were 100% ultra-aware of the condition of your action . . . but not of where the muzzle was pointed?

I don't want to participate in a dogpile, I simply wish to point out that while you think you might have had conscious control over your weapon, the video shows this was clearly not the case. You can't argue your way out of that.

Especially at a shooting range, where you have no business or reason to point the gun in any other than a safe direction (the safe direction is right there in front of you), the unconscious muscle memory act should have been to continue pointing the gun in the safe direction. Personally, I'm less concerned than some others about where your finger was, because none of that mattered if you simply kept pointing the weapon downrange.

Putting my halo on now, I can tell you what I would do (because it has happened to me; in fact it happens to most of us at one point or other): I would have simply put the handgun down on the little bench in front of me, while keeping the muzzle pointed downrange. It only takes less than a second.

This is because even though I work with firearms and am surrounded by firearms and I handle them every day, there is a little something in the back of my head that never lets me forget I have a potentially dangerous weapon in my hand, and it should be handled accordingly. With all due humility, I really think that is the point where you need to be.

BTW, knocking my halo a little to one side, I will admit I have made mistakes, and thankfully those mistakes didn't combine with other blunders to cause a real tragedy (with guns, usually a lot has to go wrong before anyone can get hurt). But I didn't try to justify my mistakes to myself after I discovered them.

The trigger before reset is safer than the trigger after reset, and waving-around a once fired and cocked DA/SA auto is safer before the trigger resets -

Waving a gun around is never safe, no matter what's going on with the trigger.

You had no business pointing the firearm's muzzle in any other direction than downrange.