Irresponsible mother cashes in

[pacrat]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/des...idG?li=BBnb7Kz

She had already spoken to all levels of Law Enforcement. She knew there was nothing they could do. But she knew what she could have, and should have done. And didn't. She should have had her mentally ill, schizophrenic daughter who was a clear danger to herself and others adjudicated.

Instead, her and her Brady Bunch gun grabbing lawyers cashed in on her own lack of Motherly Responsibility.

I have no sympathy for this woman.

[MurdaJ]

Without her daughter committing a crime against her, what more could she have done?

[SamsDX]

This story certain takes a lot of turns, and I'll admit, at times I felt some sympathy for the mother. This isn't the usual case of imposing what is effectively strict liability on the gun store, which is thankfully precluded because of the PLCAA. The gun store was explicitly warned of this person, so it is arguable that there is a degree of negligence on their part.

Yet, given the state of the law in her state, I do think it comes back to the mother to do the responsible thing, which is:

She should have had her mentally ill, schizophrenic daughter who was a clear danger to herself and others adjudicated.

"Between 2007 and 2010, she was hospitalized four times for bipolar disorder and suicidal behavior, according to court papers. She tried to kill herself with prescription pills and spent weeks in a hospital before coming home to live with her parents after that last hospital stay."

I don't know too much about California's mental health laws, but a 5150 hold is for cases like this, right? As critical as I am about California's firearms laws, this person would have been a prohibited person and she wouldn't have been able to purchase a firearm through legitimate means. This, of course, says nothing about the possibility of her acquiring a firearm through illegal means.

[SamsDX]

Without her daughter committing a crime against her, what more could she have done?

The daughter was schizophrenic and bipolar. She should have been hospitalized, and adjudicated incompetent.

Although, from the article, it looks like that was done. Why that status still allowed her to pass a background check, I don't know. Something about faulty information sharing?

[ke6guj]

This story certain takes a lot of turns, and I'll admit, at times I felt some sympathy for the mother. This isn't the usual case of imposing what is effectively strict liability on the gun store, which is thankfully precluded because of the PLCAA. The gun store was explicitly warned of this person, so it is arguable that there is a degree of negligence on their part.

who is the gunshop required to heed the warning from?

For instance, a spouse pissed off that you spend money on guns instead of her, could call up the gunshop and tell them not to sell to you because you are crazy. should the gunshop take her word for it, or should they require her provide some legal documentation of the fact (which the mother in this case most likely did not have)?

[calif 15-22]

She had already spoken to all levels of Law Enforcement. She knew there was nothing they could do. But she knew what she could have, and should have done. And didn't. She should have had her mentally ill, schizophrenic daughter who was a clear danger to herself and others adjudicated.

Instead, her and her Brady Bunch gun grabbing lawyers cashed in on her own lack of Motherly Responsibility.

I have no sympathy for this woman.

I think that's a bit harsh there OP. This women lost her husband and now her daughter. Not saying the lawsuit was the answer but the women does deserve some sympathy.

[ChuckDizzle]

I think that's a bit harsh there OP. This women lost her husband and now her daughter. Not saying the lawsuit was the answer but I believe the Gun Store could have heeded some of the mother's concern and not sold her a gun. Small town of 800 people I think the Pawn Shop/Gun Store could have refused the daughter and things might be different.

This right here, there's a totality of the circumstances. This wasn't Bass Pro in San Jose selling her a gun. If I owned a gun store in a small town where I knew, or was one degree separate from most people and a concerned family member came in and said their relative was diagnosed schizophrenic and was going to hurt themselves or someone else I, as a reasonably prudent person, would pass on the sale.

[Californio]

I am a California Court Appointed Conservator for a Schizophrenic Relative. The Liberals have made it almost impossible to get a conservatorship plus the added authority to administer medicines.

The dementia power is available when the relative is elderly, but still not easy to get, but unless your relative kills someone, you simply won't get the authority needed to help them, after the fact anyone?

The liberals pick on lawful gun owners because they won't allow the mentally ill people to be forced to take meds.

Talk about forked tongues.

Three killers the liberals could have stopped if it were not for their failed Mental Health Laws, so they pick on us.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goleta_postal_facility_shootings

A 5250 would have prevented her from purchasing in New Mexico.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Isla_Vista_killings

Good luck getting a conservatorship of a twenty something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Isla_Vista_killings

Good luck getting a conservatorship of a twenty something.

[calif 15-22]

This right here, there's a totality of the circumstances. This wasn't Bass Pro in San Jose selling her a gun. If I owned a gun store in a small town where I knew, or was one degree separate from most people and a concerned family member came in and said their relative was diagnosed schizophrenic and was going to hurt themselves or someone else I, as a reasonably prudent person, would pass on the sale.

I tend to agree . . . While the gun store was well within it's rights and did everything by the book, it still is a sad story for all involved.

I imagine it's not only tough for the family but for the gun store owner as well as a small town of 800 I assume everyone knows most everyone.

[TRICKSTER]

I think that's a bit harsh there OP. This women lost her husband and now her daughter. Not saying the lawsuit was the answer but I believe the Gun Store could have heeded some of the mother's concern and not sold her a gun. Small town of 800 people I think the Pawn Shop/Gun Store could have refused the daughter and things might be different.

Hi gun store, I'm calif 15-22's brother. He is a paranoid schizophrenic and may be a danger to himself or someone else. I think that he may come to your store and buy a gun. Do not sell him one.

So should the gun store deny you a firearm based solely on my phone call even though you pass a federal background check?

[AceGirlsHusband]

who is the gunshop required to heed the warning from?

For instance, a spouse pissed off that you spend money on guns instead of her, could call up the gunshop and tell them not to sell to you because you are crazy. should the gunshop take her word for it, or should they require her provide some legal documentation of the fact (which the mother in this case most likely did not have)?

Only if she knew what gun dealer you were going to buy from. And even if she did, and they erred on the side of caution and refused, you can always go to another shop somewhere else and make the transaction. If I owned a shop, had a person who claimed to be a certain person's mother, and was making heart-felt pleas to me to block that sale - I probably would. And then I'd call the police and make a report of what happened.

[ChuckDizzle]

who is the gunshop required to heed the warning from?

For instance, a spouse pissed off that you spend money on guns instead of her, could call up the gunshop and tell them not to sell to you because you are crazy. should the gunshop take her word for it, or should they require her provide some legal documentation of the fact (which the mother in this case most likely did not have)?

It's called the standard of care due by a reasonably prudent person. Again we didn't hear all the evidence presented at trial and most news articles do a poor job of explaining all that evidence. This looks like a small town gun shop, they could have known of her history and issues. I'll trust the folks on the jury who spent days hearing evidence on the matter made the right decision barring any other facts I am not aware of.

[calif 15-22]

Hi gun store, I'm calif 15-22's brother. He is a paranoid schizophrenic and may be a danger to himself or someone else. I think that he may come to your store and buy a gun. Do not sell him one.

So should the gun store deny you a firearm based solely on my phone call even though you pass a federal background check?

Hello Trickster. Are you my older or younger brother?

And for the record I did go back and edit out the "gun store responsible" as I thought about it and they did everything by the book. You guys copied me too quickly for my own good.

[ke6guj]

Only if she knew what gun dealer you were going to buy from. And even if she did, and they erred on the side of caution and refused, you can always go to another shop somewhere else and make the transaction. If I owned a shop, had a person who claimed to be a certain person's mother, and was making heart-felt pleas to me to block that sale - I probably would. And then I'd call the police and make a report of what happened.

and if I was a pissed-off wife, I might just call every gunshop in the area and tell them the same story. the point is, why should the gunshop just take the word of a stranger over the phone?

[ke6guj]

It's called the standard of care due by a reasonably prudent person. Again we didn't hear all the evidence presented at trial and most news articles do a poor job of explaining all that evidence. This looks like a small town gun shop, they could have known of her history and issues. I'll trust the folks on the jury who spent days hearing evidence on the matter made the right decision barring any other facts I am not aware of.

there wasn't one. the gunshop settled before it went to a jury.