Lets talk first aid. Esp after raahauge's.

[Swampcrip]

I was thinking about the GSW at Raahauges today and it got me thinking about a few things.

1. I am now wearing body armor at matches. I dont care if i look like a crazy wanna be commando it is worth it to me to have this layer of safety.

2. What capabilities do ranges have to treat a GSW?

Im sure they have first aid but how many people are trained in TCCC or how to pack wounds or deal with a sucking chest wound? I keep an IFAK in my car and i am also starting EMT school in tuesday to have quality first aid training. After my classes i am commiting to 6 months of work for real world expierence.

I have training due to the nature of my travel to deal with traumatic injuries. I dont know specifics about the deceased injury but i wish i could have gotten in earlier to administer first aid. If the GFs little borther hadnt forgotten his ammo we would have been on site durring this tragic accident. (I am also happy we wernt because it could have been one of them.)


So question is do you think ranges should have dedicated on site individuals trained in TCCC or emt skills?

[I Swan]

A long time ago when instructing noobs on shooting I wore body armor I felt it was probably a good idea.

[steelholder]

I was thinking about the GSW at Raahauges today and it got me thinking about a few things.

1. I am now wearing body armor at matches. I dont care if i look like a crazy wanna be commando it is worth it to me to have this layer of safety.

2. What capabilities do ranges have to treat a GSW?

Im sure they have first aid but how many people are trained in TCCC or how to pack wounds or deal with a sucking chest wound? I keep an IFAK in my car and i am also starting EMT school in tuesday to have quality first aid training. After my classes i am commiting to 6 months of work for real world expierence.

I have training due to the nature of my travel to deal with traumatic injuries. I dont know specifics about the deceased injury but i wish i could have gotten in earlier to administer first aid. If the GFs little borther hadnt forgotten his ammo we would have been on site durring this tragic accident. (I am also happy we wernt because it could have been one of them.)


So question is do you think ranges should have dedicated on site individuals trained in TCCC or emt skills?

No, they shouldn't but perhaps your intent on wearing armor isn't uncalled for.

[CouchOperator]

I dont think it would be right to put the responsibility of medical response and the livelihood of customers on range staff. Their job is to do their best by being aware of unsafe behavior and prevent an issue from occuring in the first place; which includes recognizing, assessing, and addressing/correcting poor or hazardous range layouts. If they were that qualified to be first responders they would be in an ambulance getting paid more.

I recommend a slick rifle plate carrier like the Velocity Systems Law Enforcement Carrier or the Ferro Concepts Slickster, and depending on your build you can conceal it under a shirt, like i can with my Ferro with 10x12 plates.

https://www.velsyst.com/law-enforcement-plate-carrier.html

http://www.skdtac.com/Ferro-Concepts-The-Slickster-p/fer.107.htm

Also, plates *might* stop a round. While level 3 or 4 are generally acceptable for their ratings, you should probably carry shears where if you did worse-case-scenario get a pass-through from a handloaded hot round someone loaded to a higher FPS than the plate is rated for. Shears will be handy to quickly cut off the shoulder strap and cumberbund. Again, this is an extreme example but the tools and ability for quick removal of the carrier must be considered if you experience a pass through

[Carlosa]

You can wear all the armor you want, it won't keep you from getting hit in the head, or another vital un protected area.

But if you eventually need to look like robocop just to be safe at the range, then maybe not going to this kinds of ranges makes more since.

I can tell you that the Norco incident only really points out how that particular range is now unable to provide the most minimum standard of safety.

[CouchOperator]

You can wear all the armor you want, it won't keep you from getting hit in the head, or another vital un protected area.

When did anyone state it would? Do you have a grasp on terminal ballistics inside a chest cavity?

But if you eventually need to look like robocop just to be safe at the range, then maybe not going to this kinds of ranges makes more since.

And antigun people would say you are trying to be robocop because you probably carry a gun in public. Body armor is PPE on vital organs. Sucks to be so shallow where someone wearing PPE brings out namecalling and stupid baseless stigmas. If what people wear bothers you so much, i can't imagine living in your head for 24 hours.
I'll agree to "that kind" of range because "that kind" was clearly set up in an unsafe manner

I can tell you that the Norco incident only really points out how that particular range is now unable to provide the most minimum standard of safety.

Answers in bold.

[Carlosa]

I don't care about anti gun people.
I care about being safe.
I've shot at Norco and continue to shoot in my new home in Texas.
I also shoot major matches in vegas Florida Arizona.

I've been to an abnormal number of ranges and matches.
If you want to wear armor do you booboo...
But if you want to be safe, your better off shooting at places where the range owners make it so you don't have to wear armor to be safe.

[CouchOperator]

I don't care about anti gun people.
I care about being safe.
I've shot at Norco and continue to shoot in my new home in Texas.
I also shoot major matches in vegas Florida Arizona.

I've been to an abnormal number of ranges and matches.
If you want to wear armor do you booboo...
But if you want to be safe, your better off shooting at places where the range owners make it so you don't have to wear armor to be safe.

You kind of missed my point, however...
Do tell me how you are able to fully diagnose everybodys skill levels and knowledge just by looking at them

[Carlosa]

As I said bro...
Do you booboo

[jakeair777]

I was thinking about the GSW at Raahauges today and it got me thinking about a few things.

1. I am now wearing body armor at matches. I dont care if i look like a crazy wanna be commando it is worth it to me to have this layer of safety.

2. What capabilities do ranges have to treat a GSW?

Im sure they have first aid but how many people are trained in TCCC or how to pack wounds or deal with a sucking chest wound? I keep an IFAK in my car and i am also starting EMT school in tuesday to have quality first aid training. After my classes i am commiting to 6 months of work for real world expierence.

I have training due to the nature of my travel to deal with traumatic injuries. I dont know specifics about the deceased injury but i wish i could have gotten in earlier to administer first aid. If the GFs little borther hadnt forgotten his ammo we would have been on site durring this tragic accident. (I am also happy we wernt because it could have been one of them.)


So question is do you think ranges should have dedicated on site individuals trained in TCCC or emt skills?

i always carry a backpack with about 6 different types of medkits/ quickclot

[Foebia]

It's no different then racing, there are risks.

[Quiet]

My range bag always has a first aid/trauma kit in it.



The San Bernardino County Sheriff Department puts on personal safety classes for women, part of which includes firearms training. During the firearms training portion, they have the participants wear body armor while on the shooting range. All their range safety officers wear body armor while dealing with people (class attendees, academy recruits, CCW quals) on the range.

[blkside]

You can have all the gear you want but if you arent trained to use it than you have some expensive useless gear. I build Trauma kits for some out of state agencies and the most important factor of the kits are the associated training.

Find an accredited school that trains individuals 24/7 not some guy who can impress you with his googlefu. JTM training is ran by an associate and they train CBP, Spec Ops and other government and military entities...

[IVC]

What happened at Raahauge's is an organizational/structural problem. Such problems don't get fixed by body armor or med kits.

Otherwise, being prepared is a good thing. That includes knowledge, then gear. One thing that I find problematic, though, is that *your gear* and *your knowledge* are there to save *others*, not you (unless you're conscious and can help yourself). Similar to scuba diving, where quality of your backup gear will benefit your buddy, not you.

[RobG]

Honestly, 911 is your best bet. Critical GSW's need surgical intervention. That either means an ambulance transport or helo, depending on distance and situation. Don't get me wrong, learning to plug holes, tourniquet, etc is a great thing to know. Just do not overestimate what you think you can do.

As far as experience as an EMT; unless you work for an ALS provider you aren't going to see GSW/trauma. Hell, I work in the hood and haven't run a GSW in over a year. Plus as the BLS provider you will not be doing hands on for trauma pts anyway.