hypothetical gun usage question

[TMB 1]

[CouchOperator]

A fallacy thoroughly debunked by Sergeant Dennis Tueller, of the Salt Lake City, Utah Police Department.

A person armed with a knife or other contact weapon and 20 feet away can be on top of you in about 1.5 seconds. Can you draw your gun and make a good hit in 1.5 seconds? How do you know? (BTW, I have done it in classes at Gunsite.)

More on the "Tueller Drill" here, here, and here.

With the assailant armed with a knife attacking you from 15 feet away, if your gun is in your holster, there's an excellent chance that you're going to get cut.

That applies to an LEO drawing from a level 3 holster. You cant shoot the guy because "he might" be able to cover that distance. Once he moves, sure, game on, he votes.... but its a test and time specific to a level 3 holster

[WMG]

That applies to an LEO drawing from a level 3 holster. You cant shoot the guy because "he might" be able to cover that distance. Once he moves, sure, game on, he votes.... but its a test and time specific to a level 3 holster

The Tueller Drill goes to show the "opportunity" the bad guy had.

Much in the sense as a bad guy with a knife/bat/contact weapon across the street does not have the opportunity to use said weapon as the bad guy does with a firearm.
Which becomes important when deciding a legal shoot.

Remember.... ability , jeopardy and opportunity and even preclusion are things you/one should understand....................

[Bobby Ricigliano]

in the neighborhood last night some guy went outside to find three teenagers in his car. he approached them and one of them pulled a knife.

Burglars. Thieves. Criminals.

if there was a gun how would it change things? legally? do you take gun outside with you concealed... do you take gun and show (seems like that's brandishing) how would the calguns community approach this situation? looking forward to hearing responses

What is the "Calguns community?"

Even if you got a hive mind-like consensus answer from the " Calguns community", it would add up to less than nothing in court.

[fiddletown]

That applies to an LEO drawing from a level 3 holster. You cant shoot the guy because "he might" be able to cover that distance. Once he moves, sure, game on, he votes.... but its a test and time specific to a level 3 holster

No, it was actually first done before level 3 holsters were in use. The time needed to draw and fire is greater now.

In fact, based on my experiences in a number of classes at Gunsite, 1.5 seconds to draw, fire two rounds, and get good hits at seven yards, is a very good time for a decently trained and practiced person using a non-concealed, non-retention holster.

In any case, the point of the exercise is to demonstrate that a person with a knife seven yards away and manifesting an intent to immediately attack is, in fact, a credible, lethal threat.

[MotoFahren]

Go back inside and call the police, sit and wait like a good citizen.

Or spray them with a hose.

[GlockN'Roll]

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner.

There is nothing I own that is worth someone else's life and I legally carry every day.

I would call police and prepare to give as much information as possible to identify the knuckleheads.

Turning a property crime into a shooting seems a very unwise escalation,

with very little, if any upside ...

With the courts the way they are, you (I mean your neighbor ) should simply call the police, even if you have a CCW.

[71MUSTY]

No, it was actually first done before level 3 holsters were in use. The time needed to draw and fire is greater now.

In fact, based on my experiences in a number of classes at Gunsite, 1.5 seconds to draw, fire two rounds, and get good hits at seven yards, is a very good time for a decently trained and practiced person using a non-concealed, non-retention holster.

In any case, the point of the exercise is to demonstrate that a person with a knife seven yards away and manifesting an intent to immediately attack is, in fact, a credible, lethal threat.

I train a lot, but being older 1.5 seconds is something I can only accomplish on a good day from a OWB 3:00 holster. Drawing from my concealed IWB 4:00 holster is noticeably slower.I use the 7 yrd guideline because it is an excepted guideline, however in reality I very likely would lose against a determined attacker armed with knife or blunt instrument who only had to close 7 yrds.

Keep in mind drawing and firing are two separate actions. If I draw to a threat and that threat evaporates before I need to fire I'm going to be happy not worrying about a brandishing charge. Brandishing is in effect making a threat not responding to one. I would however be on the phone as soon as the condition was safe making sure my IA was aware of my action.

[P5Ret]

I train a lot, but being older 1.5 seconds is something I can only accomplish on a good day from a OWB 3:00 holster. Drawing from my concealed IWB 4:00 holster is noticeably slower.I use the 7 yrd guideline because it is an excepted guideline, however in reality I very likely would lose against a determined attacker armed with knife or blunt instrument who only had to close 7 yrds.

Keep in mind drawing and firing are two separate actions. If I draw to a threat and that threat evaporates before I need to fire I'm going to be happy not worrying about a brandishing charge. Brandishing is in effect making a threat not responding to one. I would however be on the phone as soon as the condition was safe making sure my IA was aware of my action.

The difference between being considered a suspect or a victim to the initial responding officer's can often be determined by a race of who gets on the phone first after the actual incident.

[geoint]

Legally speaking, idgaf. That's my property and I'd be happy to trade a few years of my life to send some scumbags like that to hell. probably get let out early anyways thanks to CA prisons being the mismanaged dumps that they are.

[geoint]

Of course, I wouldn't shoot til after the knife came out. But at that point I'd empty a mag into said scumbag(s) and it'd be my word versus a corpse...


I would never break the law lol. But thanks to castle doctrine/stand your ground, once I got a green light, it's gonna be like the Fourth of July

[RickD427]

Of course, I wouldn't shoot til after the knife came out. But at that point I'd empty a mag into said scumbag(s) and it'd be my word versus a corpse...


I would never break the law lol. But thanks to castle doctrine/stand your ground, once I got a green light, it's gonna be like the Fourth of July

But then it could also be the scumbag's word versus a corpse. That's one of the lessons to be learned from the 21 foot rule.

[fiddletown]

... That's my property and I'd be happy to trade a few years of my life to send some scumbags like that to hell....

It's not just a few years of your life. It's pretty much the rest of your life.

A felony conviction can affect your employment prospects and career choices as long as you live. It is also a lifetime loss of gun rights. And while we see some expungements and restoration of rights, those are usually for youthful indiscretions -- marijuana, petty theft, etc. A manslaughter conviction can be another matter entirely.

[bronco75a]

What's the point of having a home defense weapon if you're not even going to bring it out there to protect your property. I'm pretty sure if said punk showed his knife and saw your rifle/handgun he'd think better of it and beat feet.

[fiddletown]

What's the point of having a home defense weapon ....

The point of having it is to have it available when it would be legally and tactically necessary to use it. The point of getting training and educated about the laws related to the use of force is so that you will know how to decide when that is.