Need Gun Owners Opinion

[JG87]

The point of view of why most people buy guns and what goes into their decision making is exactly what I came to research, and I've gotten quite a bit of content, thank you. That said, our target audience won't make fun of France as much as the general gun industry will. I've not spent much time around gun enthusiasts beyond a family member, a casual friend and a military man I dated for a while. But I have spent a lot of time in the business community. Raised under the CEO of a trade magazine, I've spent my life around the metropolitan businesspeople who have a fair amount of disposable income and choose to spend it in different ways. That audience is primarily what I had in mind, mainly because I'm accustomed to it and know what their tastes are skewed towards. Those kind of people are far less likely to see a gun in the same way as most of the people who read this forum. Yes, when you get down to it, the reason is the same; self-defense. But the way to get to this particular audience always the kind of advertising you see in the gun industry today. Granted, for a 3 week project, I've taken far more research than I was meant to and this is turning out to be a far more in-depth project. Thanks for giving me something a little more realistic to work with! This side-project wasn't meant to be so detailed, but this is an interesting opportunity I think. Taking a subject I know nothing about, researching it heavily and coming up with a marketable concept is exactly what a good Graphic Designer should be able to do. Tomorrow's the day where all this culminates and my group starts to actually build from our research. The project will be finished next week and I should have it uploaded somewhere by the 15th or 16th. I'll post a link here when it's up, for anyone that wants to see the finished product.

[SwissFluCase]

In the point that guns are not Rolexes, I disagree. Considering who our fabricated audience is, we very intentionally chose to market our guns as something similar. Yes, we are marketing them for self-defense, but we're also marketing our product to people who will pay the extra money for a status symbol. That's what we're going for, so in this case yes, the gun is a Rolex, comparatively. Try this: does our target audience regularly frequent football-themed bars, does our target audience buy off-road vehicles? No. We're going after the metropolitan 20-something business professional. People who are more likely to take a taxi to work than a 4-wheeler. People who probably frequent more upscale, high-class bars after work or for business meetings. People who we can say "Hey, the city's a dangerous place. You need to have some form of protection because you never know what might happen when you're walking home to your apartment in midtown after work." We're not going for the enthusiast hunter angle here. We're going for high-class, upscale, metropolitan. Hence the jewelry idea. James Bond, however you want to describe it. Something that conveys class and elegance. I realize that this is not a marketing angle that would be chosen for the mainstream gun market, but we're trying to capture a very specific audience here that's not inside the normal gun industry.

At the risk of being skewered by my fellow Calgunners, this demographic roughly describes me. I demand quality in my weapons. I don't really care what the special forces in Iraq are carrying. What the Secret Service carries has a lot more weight with me, as my threat profile involves me being in "polite society" most of the time. Being the CEO of a corporation, I rub elbows with this type of personality, and the gun ownership among executives is far higher than people on this board might think.

I aspired to own two handguns in particular. One is the P7M8 that I posted ad copy for in this thread. It is considered merely the second best 9mm handgun in existence. They run for about $1500.00 now, and are worth every penny. I recently acquired one, and everyone at the range wants to be my buddy. Check out http://www.parkcitiestactical.com to get an idea of the aura surrounding this weapon.

The other is the SIG P210. This is considered the best 9mm ever made, and the finest military handgun ever made. They are (were) so well made that they priced themselves out of the military and police market, and are now a connoisseur item. Prices range from $2000.00 to $6000.00. Google this pistol. You will see what I mean.

Why do I like these pistols? They have pedigree. They are precision engineered. They are made with a very fine level of fit and finish. They are durable. They are very accurate. They feel right, in the hand and in live fire. In short, they have the same inherent fineness that a Patek watch, a Michel Perchin pen, an Elie Bleu humidor, or that a Brioni suit has. Do they have mass market brand appeal? Not really. People who know the market for these goods can recognize the name, however.

As you can tell from my login name, I enjoy Swiss weaponry. French is spoken in Switzerland, and they have an excellent martial heritage, so the language is OK. The name you suggest, whether you are man or woman, gay or straight, seems to lack power. A fine pistol can be slim, finely finished, discreet, etc., but it must have enough power to kill efficiently. Remember, I may have to point this exquisite example of Swiss engineering and beauty at someone's chest, and violently blast baseball sized chunks of flesh out of him. I would only do this because the target is trying to kill me, or rape my fine female companion (or worse), and I want to make sure the hardware will do it's part. A fine pistol may very well be a status symbol, but it must be capable of acting in the gravest extreme.

It's a confidence thing.

7x57 made a good point with James Bond. I own a classic PPK, and it exudes class. My snubnose .38 is a better gun, but it... Well, it's like eating burgers when I could be eating steak. S&W Model 36's are so pedestrian, even if they are classics in their own right. The 36 is a classic Mustang. The PPK is a classic Ferrari. The P210 is a classic Bugatti. When Bond switched to the P99 it was such a let down. He might as well carry a Glock.

As you probably know, but I will restate to make a point, women and rap stars wear jewelry. Gentlemen carry and wear accessories. A fine pistol is understated. Think fine lingerie on a woman. Not everyone gets to see it. A gun is the same way, whether you are a man or a woman. Now here come the Manites jokes... No, I don't wear them. I'd sooner be caught in the French Army.

Anyways, that is how I see it from my perspective, a slightly snobbish CEO who works and lives in one of the most affluent areas in the US.

Oh My... It's late, I'm tired, and I think I just comitted unspeakable acts against the English language. Better go off to bed...

Again, best of luck.

Regards,


SwissFluCase

[zeleny]

But...note that Bond carries a *German* Walther.

You also bring in France's, ah, less than stellar engineering image.

You mean, like inventing smokeless powder?

[sugi942]

Not that I'm particularly fond of modern France, but they did also manage the first lighter than air manned flight.

[7x57]

Remember, I may have to point this exquisite example of Swiss engineering and beauty at someone's chest, and violently blast baseball sized chunks of flesh out of him.

Your expensive 9mm can do *that*? Maybe paying that premium *is* worth it after all.

Oh My... It's late, I'm tired, and I think I just comitted unspeakable acts against the English language.

Nah, I think you must be OK. This line is a minor classic:

Think fine lingerie on a woman. Not everyone gets to see it.

I'll have to remember that.

Anyways, that is how I see it from my perspective, a slightly snobbish CEO who works and lives in one of the most affluent areas in the US.

You know, for a board full of twenty-somethings who like to talk about how to prepare for the coming zombie apocalypse, there are a surprising number of CEOs here. I guess CEOs need to prepare for the Living Dead to erupt from the grave too.

7x57

[7x57]

Bond's Walther PPK was made in France by Manurhin, its proofmarks and logos notwithstanding.

And Roland was Charlemagne's paladin, too, and people say he was no sissy.

The point is that we were talking marketing, and in marketing reality doesn't matter, only stereotype and perception. None of those things you mentioned have made an impression on the public consciousness, so they don't exist. People buy based on the fantasy world in their head, not the one they stub their toes on.

For exhaustive illustrations of this principle, I refer you to the last presidential election.

7x57

[zeleny]

there are a surprising number of CEOs here

[zeleny]

The point is that we were talking marketing, and in marketing reality doesn't matter, only stereotype and perception.

Q: What's the difference between sales and marketing?
A: A salesman knows whenever he's telling a lie.

If "Grey Goose" worked for Sidney Frank, why not shove "Pistolet" in the same metrosexual niche?

[Tarn_Helm]

You cannot successfully pick a brand name until . . .

The name sucks out loud.

I own guns for hunting, target shooting and self defense.

Been shooting since I was a small boy, really got into firearms after high school.

Firearms are an everyday thing. Wallet, sunglasses, watch, keys, pistol (except where prohibited by law)

The "appeal" is independence, not having to rely on anyone else for my own preservation.

I spend more than I should, but as not as much as Id like.

As far as manufacturers, I dont have a specific favorite, just favorite types of firearms.

You cannot successfully pick a brand name until YOU KNOW YOUR TARGETED DEMOGRAPHIC (no pun intended).

You guys have started out bassackwards.

"Pistolet" is the wrong name.

Do not compromise or go along with the group.

It is the wrong name.

Most young professionals who would be interested in firearms are male.

That will take one specific marketing campaign aimed at the values and attitudes of young males.


The other, and by far smaller target demographic, will be FEMALE, and thus it will require one specific marketing campaign aimed at the values and attitudes of young FEmales, which are not the same as young males, at least in terms of how you present your product as associated with those attitudes and values.

Young males are buying the testosterone factor: invincible, prepared, ready for any threat, silent and secret ("Mr. Slick"), strong, confident, independent sheepdog facing down pack of wolves . . . Get it?

Young females: vulnerable, may need to protect offspring in uneven battle against large predatory male, fearful, dark rainy nights with lightning, bump in the night, scary dark parking lots . . .

You cannot pitch gun stuff to women the way you pitch it to men and vice versa.

You guys need to study the psychology of gun people before you start naming your product.

Go to some gun blogs (where you can also find links to other gun blogs), buy a bunch of gun magazines at a well-stocked magazine stand, meet with your group over a BIG pot of coffee and start reading--then start discussing the people of the gun culture--figure out what makes them tick before you try to develop a persuasive campaign.

Go to a book store and look at Armed America and Thank God I Had a Gun and The Concealed Handgun Manual and Stayin' Alive: Armed and Female in an Unsafe World . . .

You guys have a lot of homework to do.

[DiscoBayJoe]

You shoudl select the name "GAAAT". It looks like something you'd see on a watch face.

[7x57]

Y
You guys need to study the psychology of gun people before you start naming your product.

As far as I can tell, OP has already decided that he "gets it" for the audience he imagines, and that this is non-negotiable (one might ponder the wisdom of refusing to listen to the most consistent suggestion of the people he chose to ask, but...). This may well get an "A" on the assignment, as the grader is very very unlikely to know anything about guns. But the real world would probably think differently--I would not invest.

That said--I think they picked a very difficult assignment, a product that few of them understand for a very unusual and image-driven market. So they should get some respect for choosing it rather than going with something simple, and more for trying to really investigate it on a gunnie board. If I were grading I would give real credit for that effort, because I suspect more will be learned.

The problem is that basically guns are simple machines and the designs became mature around a century ago, the real advances in the last century were mostly in propellants and projectile design. And you simply cannot (and do not wish to) test them for their intended use, a situation you plan to never let happen. So in a sense image matters more than we like to admit...look at the successful names. So many of them are associated with the American West, the US military, or Germany. Beretta is one of the world's oldest industrial corporations.

Hard game to break into. But not impossible...my favorite pistol is a Kimber. The name (IMO) is actually very weak sounding for a firearm (though not as weak as Pistolet--almost nothing is as weak as Pistolet), but they have certainly overcome that and become an important player in their niche.

Albeit with 98 year-old-design, I note. Also note that my pistol happens to be essentially the LAPD SWAT model, which provides a certain manly association of the sort we've been trying to point out. :-)

7x57

[Tarn_Helm]

eh

As far as I can tell, OP has already decided that he "gets it" for the audience he imagines, and that this is non-negotiable (one might ponder the wisdom of refusing to listen to the most consistent suggestion of the people he chose to ask, but...). This may well get an "A" on the assignment, as the grader is very very unlikely to know anything about guns. But the real world would probably think differently--I would not invest.

That said--I think they picked a very difficult assignment, a product that few of them understand for a very unusual and image-driven market. So they should get some respect for choosing it rather than going with something simple, and more for trying to really investigate it on a gunnie board. If I were grading I would give real credit for that effort, because I suspect more will be learned.

The problem is that basically guns are simple machines and the designs became mature around a century ago, the real advances in the last century were mostly in propellants and projectile design. And you simply cannot (and do not wish to) test them for their intended use, a situation you plan to never let happen. So in a sense image matters more than we like to admit...look at the successful names. So many of them are associated with the American West, the US military, or Germany. Beretta is one of the world's oldest industrial corporations.

Hard game to break into. But not impossible...my favorite pistol is a Kimber. The name (IMO) is actually very weak sounding for a firearm (though not as weak as Pistolet--almost nothing is as weak as Pistolet), but they have certainly overcome that and become an important player in their niche.

Albeit with 98 year-old-design, I note. Also note that my pistol happens to be essentially the LAPD SWAT model, which provides a certain manly association of the sort we've been trying to point out. :-)

7x57

[emphasis added by me]

No buts about it: wrong name.

Whatever.

Here is info I left out.

Since I might be a paranoid gun nut, here are imaginary answers to the little survey which some have posted:

Why do you own a gun?
It is the core of my value system: self-reliance.

. . . also, "Self/home defense purposes, hunting, target shooting, and its my favorite hobby."

How many do you own?
1 Glock Model 22
2 S&W 638
3 Walther P.38
4 Charter Bulldog .44 Special
5 Star Model B
6 Kimber 1911
7 S&W M&P (the real thing, a revolver from 1949)
8 Colt DS
9 Colt Agent
10 Colt Cobra
11 Rossi .38 snubby
13 S&W Model 36-1
14 S&W 342
15 S&W 296
16 S&W Model 66
17 Ruger GP 100
18 Ruger SP 101
19 Kel-Tec SU 16
20 Remington 870 12 Gauge
21 Marlin .22 semiauto rifle
22 CZ 550 bolt action hunting rifle
23 Something that looks like AR 15 but is legal here in CA
24 S&W Model 13-4
25 S&W Model 624 (but still waiting to pick it up)

When did you start getting interested in guns and why?
Loved toy guns as kid but never was around real ones.
Brother became LEO and tried to convince me of their necessity and of my civic duties; the L.A. riots filled in the gaps and I became an instant convert; further study of core documents pertaining to ideas of America's Founding Fathers was the final case hardening applied to my thought on firearms.

Are guns something that is a part of your regular life or lifestyle, or something on the side?
Essential to my existence.
They will be surrendered only upon my death.

What about guns appeals to you?
Firearms can be used to defend me against threats that I could not otherwise defeat alone (or if necessary, in collaboration with others).

How much money a year on average do you spend on guns?
About $5,000 per annum.

Do you buy guns from a specific manufacturer?
Usually.
My early days of experimenting with untested or cheap brands are over (Star, Charter, etc.).
Typically: Glock, Ruger, S&W, Remington, CZ, Kimber, and any gun I have actually tested at the range and found adequate.

[rayra]

In the point that guns are not Rolexes, I disagree. Considering who our fabricated audience is, we very intentionally chose to market our guns as something similar. Yes, we are marketing them for self-defense, but we're also marketing our product to people who will pay the extra money for a status symbol. That's what we're going for, so in this case yes, the gun is a Rolex, comparatively. Try this: does our target audience regularly frequent football-themed bars, does our target audience buy off-road vehicles? No. We're going after the metropolitan 20-something business professional. People who are more likely to take a taxi to work than a 4-wheeler. People who probably frequent more upscale, high-class bars after work or for business meetings. People who we can say "Hey, the city's a dangerous place. You need to have some form of protection because you never know what might happen when you're walking home to your apartment in midtown after work." We're not going for the enthusiast hunter angle here. We're going for high-class, upscale, metropolitan. Hence the jewelry idea. James Bond, however you want to describe it. Something that conveys class and elegance. I realize that this is not a marketing angle that would be chosen for the mainstream gun market, but we're trying to capture a very specific audience here that's not inside the normal gun industry.

Sorry but this again shows an idealistic / stylized ignorance of the real world, because the milieu you are describing is almost always saddled with massively restrictive handgun control. The very urbane sophisticate cityscape you posit denies your target customer the right to arm themselves. DC, NYC, Chicago, all have near-total bans on CCW or even bare ownership of handguns.
And increasingly more often than not - and demonstrated by any county by count voting map - those same urbane denizens are indoctrinated to be rabidly anti-gun.

You can craft your yuppie campaign, but it will be a fiction, based on a fiction.

[jazman]

Just post this pic with the caption; if your target market has any class and style at all you will succeed:

Snakes. Good guys love them, bad guys fear them.


You are welcome.

[SwissFluCase]

Your expensive 9mm can do *that*? Maybe paying that premium *is* worth it after all.

That's all in the ammo. The european designs love +P and +P+. Add in well designed hollowpoints, and you have a winner!

You know, for a board full of twenty-somethings who like to talk about how to prepare for the coming zombie apocalypse, there are a surprising number of CEOs here. I guess CEOs need to prepare for the Living Dead to erupt from the grave too.

7x57

My company is nowhere near being public, but "zombie apocalypse" would describe your average shareholders meeting.

Regards,


SwissFluCase