Carbine Williams

[johnthomas]

Sometimes we hear something and say, "I didn't know that".

On January 8, 1975, David M. “Carbine” Williams, designer of the short stroke piston, died. More than eight million Allied soldiers carried the M-1 carbine, a light, semiautomatic rifle, in World War II. General Douglas MacArthur described the weapon as “one of the strongest contributing factors to our victory in the Pacific.” J. Edgar Hoover and others had similar praise for “Carbine” Williams, the weapon’s designer.

https://nchistorytoday.wordpress.com/2013/01/08/carbine-williams-inventor-and-inmate/

[dwalker]

IN todays society- and a good chunk of folks on this site- would have never let Carbine Williams ever work for Winchester, the M1 might never have been developed, a lot of troops would have died, and we would not have a super fun truck gun in the M1 carbine. He was a convicted felon who shot and killed a deputy during a raid on his illegal still site. In prison he learned how to make wooden models of guns and later how to operate machine tools. Proof that once a debt is paid to society, it should be actually considered PAID, or why send people to prison at all.

[AreWeFree]

IN todays society- and a good chunk of folks on this site- would have never let Carbine Williams ever work for Winchester, the M1 might never have been developed, a lot of troops would have died, and we would not have a super fun truck gun in the M1 carbine. He was a convicted felon who shot and killed a deputy during a raid on his illegal still site. In prison he learned how to make wooden models of guns and later how to operate machine tools. Proof that once a debt is paid to society, it should be actually considered PAID, or why send people to prison at all.

Prison is for punishment, not for "paying a debt to society."
It's impossible to repay a stolen life.

If they ever catch the dirtbags who stole your stuff, and if they ever go to prison, will you consider yourself repaid?

[GM4spd]

Carbine Williams also designed the "floating chamber" in the Colt
Service Model Ace 22 pistol in 1935. Colt gave Ace serial # SM 2 to Williams
after it was patented.

[tmh1]

I don't know if things have really changed that much. Look at all of those good folks convicted of firearm related crimes whose sentences have been commuted by Yobama: Felon in possession, use of a firearm during commission of a felony, etc.

So obviously you don't want to punish those who are responsible for "gun crime", so you instead go after the balance of the law abiding gun owners. Makes perfect sense, don't you think?

Boy, I just can't wait for Jan. 20th!

And... isn't there some question as to whether it was really Carbine Williams who shot the law officer, or is that just something made up by Hollywood? There is no doubt that he was running an illegal still but I recall some doubts about what really occurred during the take down.

[C.W.M.V.]

IN todays society- and a good chunk of folks on this site- would have never let Carbine Williams ever work for Winchester, the M1 might never have been developed, a lot of troops would have died, and we would not have a super fun truck gun in the M1 carbine. He was a convicted felon who shot and killed a deputy during a raid on his illegal still site. In prison he learned how to make wooden models of guns and later how to operate machine tools. Proof that once a debt is paid to society, it should be actually considered PAID, or why send people to prison at all.

Agreed.

[GM4spd]

I don't know if things have really changed that much. Look at all of those good folks convicted of firearm related crimes whose sentences have been commuted by Yobama: Felon in possession, use of a firearm during commission of a felony, etc.
.

This is a real travesty. I sincerely hope no one is hurt/killed by anyone he
has released. This man hates America and he has made no attempt to
hide it. His arrogance knows no bounds.

[Cody805]

Rest in peace !
Ps what a cool nickname !

[Henry Shooter]

Thanks OP
Very good information.

[dwalker]

Prison is for punishment, not for "paying a debt to society."
It's impossible to repay a stolen life.

If they ever catch the dirtbags who stole your stuff, and if they ever go to prison, will you consider yourself repaid?

If they served their fill sentence or met legit parole requirements? Sure.
Not so much if they re just released out,

If prison is merely for punishment why not just bring back lashings, brandings, etc. which are actual punishments that might even deter crime. Even considering it is just a punishment, when you take years of freedom away from someone as a punishment for thier sins, then when the punishment is over, it is over. When my kid does not do his homework and loses TV for the night I do not continue to punish him for the next week.

I don't know if things have really changed that much. Look at all of those good folks convicted of firearm related crimes whose sentences have been commuted by Yobama: Felon in possession, use of a firearm during commission of a felony, etc.

It used to be pretty hard to get a pardon, but I guess that no longer fits Obaloneys narrative..

And... isn't there some question as to whether it was really Carbine Williams who shot the law officer, or is that just something made up by Hollywood? There is no doubt that he was running an illegal still but I recall some doubts about what really occurred during the take down.

No confusion, in court Wiliams tried to say it was his stillhand who shot the Deputy, but it was later proven tht he in fact had shot the deputy.

From Wikipedia:
*side note, looks like a black man charged with killing an officer could get a fair tria in North Carolina bck in 1920's, even with an all white jury... looks like real progress has been made by Obaloney's administration. In the wrong direction.

Note that Williams was released, sentence commuted, in 1929, which means he could still own firearms, as the NFA was not passed until 1934 which prevented a violent felon from owning guns, and years before the GCA of 1968.

The Wiki article on him:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Marshall_Williams

[sigstroker]

You people know there's a movie about him, right?

[Oceanbob]

You people know there's a movie about him, right?

Yes. Good movie starring Jimmy Stewart.......

Carbine Williams did our country a great favor.....

Bob

[madjack956]

His brother Remo was a notable killer also. Quite talented in the martial arts. Had his own movie too. :

[pacrat]

His brother Remo was a notable killer also. Quite talented in the martial arts. Had his own movie too. :

Not to mention the dozens of books written about him that the movie was based on.

[Milsurp Collector]

In War Baby! by Larry Ruth, pretty much the bible of the M1 Carbine, David "Carbine" Williams was described as pretty much an a-hole by his co-workers at Winchester. They used his short stroke piston design in the M1 Carbine, but he was pretty unhelpful otherwise. He certainly didn't "design" the M1 Carbine in the way that John Garand designed the M1 Rifle.

American Rifleman also had an article about Williams, "'Carbine' Williams Myth & Reality":

Regarding the development of the M1 Carbine:

Williams was extremely upset by the Winchester organization proceeding with this gun in spite of him, and he warned me several times that he would not be responsible for anything concerning it, that he did not wish his name associated with it in any way, and notified me that I was doing this entirely on my own responsibility. I accepted this situation and we proceeded to get the gun to operate without any help whatsoever from Williams.

Obviously, Williams was unhappy with the manner in which Winchester chose to proceed with the development of the new gun, and he reportedly even threatened the life of a key company employeeWilliams still refused to have anything to do with the gunWhen I came back I was disgusted to find that very little had happened, that Williams had refused to cooperate and that little or no progress had been made. It was apparent that Williams could not pull the dimensions for the design of the gun out of his head as fast as the Experimental Shop could cut the steel and therefore it was necessary to make some other arrangement. There had been some beginnings made on the receiver and Williams told me a mistake had been made and he wanted to abandon what little had been done and have three men work all night to catch up to where he thought they should be. After looking over the situation, I decided that there was no reason for this and refused to let the men work all night. I therefore told Roemer and Humeston that we would disregard Williams and proceed to make the carbine following the general lines of the No. 1 gun, plus the .30 M2 seven pound gun, plus refinements necessary to have the carbine fall within the requirements set up by the Ordnance Department for this weapon. Roemer and Humeston then cut loose and Williams continued to sulk and to think about a design of his own. He repeatedly warned me that he would take no responsibility in this gun and that I would have to proceed entirely in accordance with my own ideas.

Complete article https://www.americanrifleman.org/art...-myth-reality/

Later on, when the M1 Carbine became a big success, David "Carbine" Williams certainly didn't disabuse anyone of the notion that the M1 Carbine was his design, even though it wasn't.