Mossberg AOW

[TheSierraDrifter]

Hello fellow Calgunners. I've done some research on AOW's, but I'm unable to confirm if this is legal here in CA..

From what I understand a Mossberg 500 PGO with 14" barrel is considered an AOW by the ATF (i.e. it's legal on a Federal level). But does this firearm fall under the short-barreled shotgun definition that CA has? I have seen similar AOW's for sale (but with a forward grip) in CA, as long as a $5 tax stamp was obtained and an NFA trust or LEO approval was completed.

Can anyone help? Thanks, in advance, for your time and responses.

[that one guy]

I bought a 870 yesterday. I made a thread about it today here

[TheSierraDrifter]

Not sure if I should correspond with you. Your post count is a little demonic... I'll check your other post.

[sloppy joe]

Sounds like a little beast

[Capybara]

Getting an AOW in California is not that hard. In case you have not shot one, they are a one trick pony, totally impractical. I mainly bought one because it was the only easily obtained NFA item in California. Would still like a C&R SBS under $1,200.00 and a few C&R SBRs. These are also California legal NFA items but good luck on finding one. You can't convert, it has to be an existing C&R SBS or SBR and they are rarer than hens teeth.

My Remington 870 AOW

[joefrank64k]

AFAIK, unless you're roster exempt, it can't be done any longer. AOW's DROS as pistols in CA.

ETA: Taurus Judges and S&W Governors are still possible as an AOW because they can be DROS'd SAE.

IANAL, YMMV, etc.

[SkyHawk]

I have had a Judge waiting on ATF approval for the mfg to ship to my SOT FFL, since April. ATF is sandbagging AOW form approvals for CA. At this rate it will be a year from payment to in-hand.

BTW, you don't need CLEO sign off anymore, you just have to notify them - no trust required. That went into effect in July of this year.

[Quiet]

Hello fellow Calgunners. I've done some research on AOW's, but I'm unable to confirm if this is legal here in CA..

From what I understand a Mossberg 500 PGO with 14" barrel is considered an AOW by the ATF (i.e. it's legal on a Federal level). But does this firearm fall under the short-barreled shotgun definition that CA has? I have seen similar AOW's for sale (but with a forward grip) in CA, as long as a $5 tax stamp was obtained and an NFA trust or LEO approval was completed.

Can anyone help? Thanks, in advance, for your time and responses.

AOW status exempts the firearm from CA SBR/SBS laws. [PC 17710(a)]

However...

Since AOWs have a less than 16" barrel length, they are also considered "handguns" under CA laws. [PC 16530(a)]

Which means they must comply with CA unsafe handgun laws and CA assault weapons laws for handguns.

Since there are no AOWs listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale, they can only be transferred using an exemption (C&R, LEO sale, out-of-state intra-familial gift, PPT, SAE, SSE2).

[ir0nclash86]

Getting an AOW in California is not that hard. In case you have not shot one, they are a one trick pony, totally impractical. I mainly bought one because it was the only easily obtained NFA item in California. Would still like a C&R SBS under $1,200.00 and a few C&R SBRs. These are also California legal NFA items but good luck on finding one. You can't convert, it has to be an existing C&R SBS or SBR and they are rarer than hens teeth.

Couldn't you just buy a Remington model 11 for $300 on gunbroker? I got one for $250 but didn't know we could sbs them ...hmmmmm

[Quiet]

Couldn't you just buy a Remington model 11 for $300 on gunbroker? I got one for $250 but didn't know we could sbs them ...hmmmmm

Per BATFE...
If you take a C&R rifle/shotgun and make it into a SBR/SBS, then it loses it's C&R status because it was manufactured into a "new" Title 2 firearm.

In order to be a C&R SBR/SBS, the SBR/SBS needed to have been made 50+ years ago.

[ir0nclash86]

Per BATFE...
If you take a C&R rifle/shotgun and make it into a SBR/SBS, then it loses it's C&R status because it was manufactured into a "new" Title 2 firearm.

In order to be a C&R SBR/SBS, the SBR/SBS needed to have been made 50+ years ago.

So it orginally has to have been a sbs/sbr? I can't take my Remington model 11 that's like over 80 years old and sbs it?

[Quiet]

So it orginally has to have been a sbs/sbr?

In order to be considered a C&R, then yes.

I can't take my Remington model 11 that's like over 80 years old and sbs it?

You can, but it will lose it's C&R status.
Once done, it will be considered a modern firearm (the new manufactured date is when it's made into a SBS).

[Capybara]

Quiet nailed it, it's the classic catch 22. If we could convert them and NFA paper them, we all would have done it years ago. Believe me, I have been looking for C&R SBS and SBR for years. I have been offered a C&R SBS from a vendor on Calguns who had some Monterey Sheriff Department NFA papered SBSs. But they were thrashed and expensive, like over $2k if I recall. No way I was paying over $2k for a beater shotgun. A nice one, possibly, but a beater? I keep looking but think about the economics of the situation. Over 50 years ago means pre-66. It still cost $200.00 back then to NFA register an SBS. Who would have paid $200.00 in say, 1960, to NFA paper an SBS when you could buy a shotgun for $40.00 new? This is a perfect example of laws conspiring in a catch 22 that nobody can work with so that the government doesn't violate the 2A, but in reality, the taxes, paperwork and regulations conspire to, in essence, ban what they don't want you to have, even though it is legal. Same with C&R SBRs, there are just not many out there for the same reasons. I still scour all of the NFA boards in the hopes of finding a unicorn, like an 1950s Remington 870 Police SBS in good shape for $800.00.

[Junkie]

In order to be considered a C&R, then yes.


You can, but it will lose it's C&R status.
Once done, it will be considered a modern firearm (the new manufactured date is when it's made into a SBS).

I think I read that they used to let it keep C&R status and then changed their minds... but I could be remembering wrong. I wonder what happened to the ones that were SBS'd when it kept C&R, are they still C&R? If not, do you get to keep it in California if it was allowed when you did it?

[Junkie]

Quiet nailed it, it's the classic catch 22. If we could convert them and NFA paper them, we all would have done it years ago. Believe me, I have been looking for C&R SBS and SBR for years. I have been offered a C&R SBS from a vendor on Calguns who had some Monterey Sheriff Department NFA papered SBSs. But they were thrashed and expensive, like over $2k if I recall. No way I was paying over $2k for a beater shotgun. A nice one, possibly, but a beater? I keep looking but think about the economics of the situation. Over 50 years ago means pre-66. It still cost $200.00 back then to NFA register an SBS. Who would have paid $200.00 in say, 1960, to NFA paper an SBS when you could buy a shotgun for $40.00 new? This is a perfect example of laws conspiring in a catch 22 that nobody can work with so that the government doesn't violate the 2A, but in reality, the taxes, paperwork and regulations conspire to, in essence, ban what they don't want you to have, even though it is legal. Same with C&R SBRs, there are just not many out there for the same reasons. I still scour all of the NFA boards in the hopes of finding a unicorn, like an 1950s Remington 870 Police SBS in good shape for $800.00.

There's also the fact that MG was the same cost. Why do SBR when you can do MG, and not need an extra stamp for <16"?