AOW

[DT556]

I'm interested in getting a Serbu Super Shorty. Can someone explain to me the process and costs involved to get one. Secondly what shops do you recommend that deal with AOWs on a regular basis.
Thanks

[Baggs]

http://www.serbu.com/super-shorty-aow-shotgun-12-gauge.html

Looks like it's considered a Smooth Bore Handgun, not a shotgun, hence AOW.

Now to find an FFL that will accept shipment of it.

Do AOW's have to be on roster in California?

[Rogue187]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=82693&highlight=SHORTY+SHOTGUN

Go to this thread and read everything.
Then you decide if you want to do it.

Good Luck on your quest.

[CSACANNONEER]

You might want to shop around a little and see if the Serbu is really what you want. There are other's that are similar like the KEG12.

[uxo2]

Looks like fun.

[Capybara]

I've got a Remington 870-based AOW, 12.1" barrel. They are fun but kind of useless. VC Sheriff won't put it on my CCW, you can't really hold it up to your face to aim it. Kind of a cool looking toy but actually shooting it is a little fun but not that great. We try to hit watermelons at 30' and when you connect it's fun. I don't regret buying it but from a practicality standpoint, I would only buy a Serbu if you are bored and have everything else, gun-wise, that you might want.

[Quiet]

With the ATF change to 41F going into effect last month, are trusts still the way to go or is filing as an individual now worth it?

Seems with the 41F change both an individual and a trust (all trustees on the trust) must supply pictures/fingerprints and must do a CLEO notification.

•all responsible persons named in the trust or legal entity are required to undergo a background check.
•all responsible persons must complete the Form 5320.23 with photo attached and provide two FD-258 fingerprint cards in order to initiate the required background check. Fingerprint cards may be ordered from the ATF Distribution Center through the online Distribution Center Order Form, or by calling (703) 870-7525 or (703) 870-7528.
•Chief Law Enforcement Officer (CLEO) certification has been replaced with CLEO notification. The applicant on the Form 1 and the transferee on the Forms 4 and 5 shall forward a completed copy of the application to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the applicant or transferee is located. In addition, all responsible persons must also submit a completed copy of Form 5320.23, to the chief law enforcement officer of the locality in which the responsible person resides.
•after July 12, 2016, all applications to make or transfer NFA firearms must be submitted on the new Form 1, Form 4 or Form 5 and a Form 5320.23 must be completed by each responsible person of a trust or legal entity.
•after July 12, 2016, CLEO certification is no longer required but applicants must send a copy of the application to make or transfer NFA firearms to their chief law enforcement officer notifying them of the application.
•all applications post marked prior to the effective date of July 13, 2016 will be processed according to the current regulations.
•all applications post marked on or after the effective date of July 13, 2016 will be processed according to the new regulations set forth by 41F.

AFAIK...

Before the change:
1. Individual had to include pictures/fingerprints and needed CLEO certification.
2. Trust did not require pictures/fingerprints and did not need CLEO certification.

After the change:
1. Individual has to include pictures/fingerprints and needs to do a CLEO notification.
2. Trust has to include pictures/fingerprints of all the trustees and needs to do a CLEO notification of where the trust is located.

[Mitch]

CLEO notification vs approval makes the trust even better now, IMHO, especially in many California counties. Certainly more of a hassle everywhere else, but at least you aren't held hostage to some elected CLEO.

[six seven tango]

With the ATF change to 41F going into effect last month, are trusts still the way to go or is filing as an individual now worth it?

Seems with the 41F change both an individual and a trust (all trustees on the trust) must supply pictures/fingerprints and must do a CLEO notification.

It all really depends on how you want to possess the gun. If you want others to be able to have possession without you present, then even with the additional 41F hassles, a trust is the way to go. Same goes for inheritance.

If there's no one that you want to be able to possess, or pass it down to, then 41F really makes it easier by taking the CLEO permission slip away and only requiring notification.

CLEO notification vs approval makes the trust even better now, IMHO, especially in many California counties. Certainly more of a hassle everywhere else, but at least you aren't held hostage to some elected CLEO.

A trust was CLEO notification only, CA included, prior to 41F, so no change there. 41F changed the approval requirement to notification for individual ownership, making individual ownership not only easier for all, but possible in CA. 41F also made a trust more of a hassle everywhere for the reasons Quiet posted above.

[DT556]

What trust website/lawyer did you guys use? What's the average costs? What do I do after I finish the trust?

[FAS1]

Like Capybara said they are really a novelty, but they are cool and can be fun just blasting stuff.

[tozan]

So when I visit California I can bring my Remington 870 AOW without worrying about getting arrested?

[that one guy]

I've got a Remington 870-based AOW, 12.1" barrel. They are fun but kind of useless. VC Sheriff won't put it on my CCW, you can't really hold it up to your face to aim it. Kind of a cool looking toy but actually shooting it is a little fun but not that great. We try to hit watermelons at 30' and when you connect it's fun. I don't regret buying it but from a practicality standpoint, I would only buy a Serbu if you are bored and have everything else, gun-wise, that you might want.

What side saddle is that?

[Quiet]

So when I visit California I can bring my Remington 870 AOW without worrying about getting arrested?

Yes, but bring a copy of your tax stamp and keep it with the AOW, in order to educate uninformed CA LEOs that might give you grief over it.



Penal Code 17710
(a) The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to “any other weapon” as defined in subsection (e) of Section 5845 of Title 26 of the United States Code, which is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the weapons under the federal Gun Control Act of 1968 (Public Law 90-618), as amended, and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

Penal Code 16590
As used in this part, “generally prohibited weapon” means any of the following:
(f) A camouflaging firearm container, as prohibited by Section 24310.
(g) A cane gun, as prohibited by Section 24410.
(k) A firearm that is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, as prohibited by Section 24510.
(t) A short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun, as prohibited by Section 33215.
(v) An unconventional pistol, as prohibited by Section 31500.
(w) An undetectable firearm, as prohibited by Section 24610.
(x) A wallet gun, as prohibited by Section 24710.
(z) A zip gun, as prohibited by Section 33600.

[deckhandmike]

Total cost on this endeavor? I got that kinda time on my hands.