MP5 Clone pistol or rifle

[shonc99]

I am looking for an MP5 clone and I see variations between the different manufacturers. I was wondering if you can attach a stock to the pistol version or does that make it a short barrell rifle subject to NFA rules. It seems that with the pistol version you can't attach a stock. I don't know much about the mechanics of the MP5 types and would love to hear the technical details.

Thanks

[blkA4alb]

To my knowledge you can't build an MP5 clone pistol. It would be subject to the drop test requirements, but I'm not 100% postitive on this. I'm pretty sure that it would have to be a single shot. And yes if you were to attach a stock to it it would be a SBR. Just the same as if you attached a stock to a Glock.

[shonc99]

I have spoken to a few manufacturers and thoroughly familiarized myself with the in's and out's. So, then does anyone know of dealers who stock the Bobcat. I mean, actually HAVE them in stock?

Also, what is the differene between the 'Navy' lower and the 'SEF' lower. My guess is the SEF means "Selective fire" type though it may not actually have the full auto parts in the trigger pack.

[m1371]

I have spoken to a few manufacturers and thoroughly familiarized myself with the in's and out's. So, then does anyone know of dealers who stock the Bobcat. I mean, actually HAVE them in stock?

Also, what is the differene between the 'Navy' lower and the 'SEF' lower. My guess is the SEF means "Selective fire" type though it may not actually have the full auto parts in the trigger pack.

Okay, as I pull out my "Heckler & Koch MP5 Submachinegun Family" manual.....

There are four (4) officially recognized models of the H&K MP5 submachinegun. Each model has numerous variations within it's family.

Variant
MP5A2 - A2 denotes weapon is fitted with a fixed buttstock. Select-fire model in caliber 9x19mm Luger (also referred to as 9x19mm NATO or Parabellum) with 8.85 inch barrel, "SEF" trigger group and fixed buttstock. Developed in 1965 for the West German Police and Border Guard.
.
.
.
MP5-N - N stands for "Navy" model. Select-fire model in caliber 9x19mm Luger with 8.85 inch barrel, ambidextrous trigger group with safe, semi and fully-automatic firing modes and retractable buttstock. Has threaded barrel to mount optional H&K stainless steel sound suppressor and front sight post with tritium dot as standard features. Intended to be used with or without the sound suppressor attached and with subsonic or supersonic ammunition. Developed in 1986 for the US Navy Special Warfare comunity.
NSN: 1005-01-360-7146

Mode of Fire Symbols - Symbols denoting the mode of fire of the MP5 submachine guns are located on the trigger group of the weapon. There are three basic versions of these symbols used over the years on the MP5 in the US. They are commercially referred to as the "SEF", the "pictogram" and "numerical" trigger group symbols, or markings. The common rule of thumb with all H&K trigger groups is white is "Safe", red is "Fire", or danger. All safety/selector levers can be removed from the trigger group without tools during field stripping.

SEF - Original German markings and very common in the US and worldwide. In use from 1960's through the present.

S - In white denotes Safe and stands for "Sicher" in German

E - In red denotes semiautomatic and stands for "Einzelfeuer" in German

F - In red denotes fully automatic and stands for "Feuerstoss" in German

The SEF symbols appear on both sides of the plastic trigger group. The tail end of the safety/selector lever along with the white indicator line, located on the right side of the axle, is moved into alignment with the appropriate firing mode symbol by the operator prior to squeezing the trigger to fire the weapon. The SEF trigger group is often a bad choice for the left handed shooter as a thumb rest is molded into the left side of the pistol grip for the right handed operator. A better choice for the left handed operator is the ambidextrous trigger group which has a left and right side safety/selector levers and no thumb rest.

Good to go?

EDIT: Here's a pic of an SEF trigger group for an example. And yes, it is "my" gun (at least for the moment).

[shonc99]

Close. I was wondering what the differences were with the trigger pack interchangability. Are there certain models which only accept a certain type, and which ones do they interchange with. In one ad it says it has the 'Navy' lower but what does that mean? Is it just in 'english' vs german 'SEF'?

[bwiese]

Don't do a pistol build.

Don't put a shorter-than-16" barrel on a rifle.
Don't have the overall length under 30", or you have an illegal AW in CA.
Use a fixed mag build or build gripless if you can.

[JPglee1]

Man, I'd de-mill that thing and toss it in a box and send it back home...



J

[m1371]

Close. I was wondering what the differences were with the trigger pack interchangability. Are there certain models which only accept a certain type, and which ones do they interchange with. In one ad it says it has the 'Navy' lower but what does that mean? Is it just in 'english' vs german 'SEF'?

Straight from the manual:

These complete trigger groups are interchangeable during operator disassembly and reassembly without special tools. Complete trigger groups are interchangeable between all variants of the MP5 and MP5SD, between all variants of the MP5-K, and all variants of the MP5/10 and MP5/40. Trigger groups should not be mixed between the above specified models except where noted as some of the component parts (ejectors, plastic grip) are different between models

The way I'm reading it, you can switch out trigger assemblies within the same model family (ie- "variants") but don't try switching from one model to another. In other words..... Keep all MP5 together, keep all MP5-K together, keep all MP5/10 together and keep all MP5/40 together.

The SEF itself is made for right-handed shooters. The Navy may have "SEF" markings but it is an ambi pistol grip.

[m1371]

Man, I'd de-mill that thing and toss it in a box and send it back home...



J

No way I'd even contemplate trying that. The odds of customs snatching it up are pretty high, given it's mailing origin. And getting busted for something like that..... Not even worth it.

Interestingly enough, this little baby was cheaper over here than a legal one is back CONUS. And yet the price on Glocks is through the ceiling.

[JPglee1]

No way I'd even contemplate trying that. The odds of customs snatching it up are pretty high, given it's mailing origin. And getting busted for something like that..... Not even worth it.

Interestingly enough, this little baby was cheaper over here than a legal one is back CONUS. And yet the price on Glocks is through the ceiling.

It's not illegal to send back gun PARTS, just receivers.

Something about the value of the parts can't exceed $100, so put them in multiple packages.

Cocking tube/charging handle/Bolt carrier in one

Barrel/lower in another

stock in a third...something like that.


Look into it, you can send parts back, just not entire guns or receivers.

I'd demill it with a couple hacksaw cuts thru the receiver tube and throw the middle sections away, keep the barrel w/the stub on it.


To each his own, but I would do it if I was there!

*edit*

At least mail me back the rear sight and the triple frame



JP

[shonc99]

So, for clarification, which lowers do the bobcat, vulcan etc. clone use? is it the basic MP5 or something else?

Also, as I stir up the hornets nest , aside from availability, which clone is the best in function, fit, reliability and finish????

[m1371]

So, for clarification, which lowers do the bobcat, vulcan etc. clone use? is it the basic MP5 or something else?

Also, as I stir up the hornets nest , aside from availability, which clone is the best in function, fit, reliability and finish????

Honestly have no idea on the HK clones. I would imagine that if it's a copy of the MP5, it'd use MP5 parts.... MP5-K would use MP5-K parts, etc etc.

As a side note..... Be aware that any HK MP5 knock-off would still have to meet the CA regs for barrel length, overall length and magazine capacity. It would be considered a rifle and would have to satisfy all the state's requirements. As for a pistol variant (ie- MP5-K), it likely isn't happening due to not being on "The List" and the detachable forward magazine.

Tread carefully with this issue should you pursue it.

[shonc99]

EDIT: Here's a pic of an SEF trigger group for an example. And yes, it is "my" gun (at least for the moment).

[/QUOTE]


How did you come across this and what do you do with it when you leave?

[rorschach]

You cannot use real MP5 SEF grips on a semi-auto receiver with out having it "clipped and pinned", meaning a slot is milled in the front of the trigger housing to fit over the shelf welded onto the semi-auto receiver. If the receiver has a hole all the way through where the shelf should be, run away cause you will just get into trouble. Fake pivot pins are installed to make it look like a machine gun lower. Any semi-auto trigger pack will fit into the housing after it has been clipped. It will fire in both E and F. IIRC, the MP5 SEF plastic grips have the "D" reinforcement, and thumb rests, while navy grips are straight, with no thumb rests, and they could be SEF, or ambi with pictotgrams. I dont know if they ever made 0-1-30 navy grips for the MP5. I cant comment on the bobcats, but the Vector MP5 style rifles come with a 2 position ambi-pictogram.

Heres my clipped and pinned SEF plastic navy style receiver on my PTR91K(A4??) Got it from http://www.robertrtg.com but you can also get them from http://www.hkspecialist.net for the same price.

[rorschach]

So, for clarification, which lowers do the bobcat, vulcan etc. clone use? is it the basic MP5 or something else?

I think I may have misunderstood your post. When you say lower, do you mean the trigger housing?? Or the receiver?? There isnt really an "upper" and "lower" receiver on HK's. There's just the receiver. When one refers to a lower on an HK, they're usually refering to the trigger housing, ie Navy lower, SEF lower, clipped/pinned lower, etc