What are your opinions on Appleseeds?

[Osprey]

There's a shoot near me in February. I'm always looking to improve and I'll also fulfill the CMP marksmanship requirement.

Have you ever been to an Appleseed? What were your impressions? Did you improve as a marksman?

Thanks

[7x57]

There's a shoot near me in February. I'm always looking to improve and I'll also fulfill the CMP marksmanship requirement.

Have you ever been to an Appleseed? What were your impressions? Did you improve as a marksman?

Thanks

Go. You won't be sorry. There are *plenty* of things I've done wrong all my life. Some will take a while to try to retrain, but some were immediately useful and I could tell I was shooting considerably better about halfway through the first day. My score didn't improve much after that, but I wasn't bothered by that because I could tell that I was running up against things that will take plenty of time to retrain. I expect to spend some time trying to wring out everything I can before going back and getting what I missed the first time. A lot of it can be trained in your living room.

I suspect Appleseed is the best deal you'll ever find on marksmanship instruction, so it's very worth it if you just want to shoot better. However, I enjoyed the history presented during the lunches and would go back rather than attend "just a class" elsewhere. It's fun!

7x57

[Osprey]

Awesome. Did you do the one- or two-day?

Sounds like money well spent. I'm in!

[7x57]

Awesome. Did you do the one- or two-day?

Two-day. The days are different, but it seemed to depend somewhat on the students. At our particular shoot my buddy and I were shooting rimfire on the lower range with a group of mostly experienced shooters (we had three make rifleman over the course of the weekend, at least some of whom had been at previous Appleseeds). Saturday was basically building the skills, Sunday was almost entirely putting it into practice by shooting the AQT over and over. We must have shot at least twice as much ammo Sunday as Saturday, maybe more.

The biggest immediate improvement for me was building the positions correctly, which no one had ever shown me. Better for the way my mind works was the fact that the instructor explained a few bottom-line reasons which I'm not sure everybody would, which allowed me to fill in the gaps. Right away I was recruiting much less muscle, which twitches and overcorrects as different groups of fibers activate and deactivate (the interpretation in terms of muscle behavior is me talking, not him, so blame me if you don't think it is correct), and relying on bone, just as the positions are designed. The other immediate improvement was using the Natural Point of Aim, also something I'd never heard of (and which also works because it minimizes muscle use, or so I think). I don't think I was doing it very well, but just trying made a difference. Probably a difference of 180 on the AQT instead of 130. The other things they taught I think I wasn't getting too much application out of yet, but I expected that. The program is designed to teach you what to practice--making it work takes much more than two days. Basically, think of the entire two days as giving you a homework assignment and helping you to understand it as much as possible.

The upper range was maybe one guy shooting centerfire and a bunch of scouts, many of whom had never shot before. It was clear from overheard conversations that that group was going much slower. It needed to, because they had to start with basic safety and muzzle awareness. I overheard some discussion that they had not been sure if they would even do transitions from standing with the scouts, but they did well enough that they were comfortable that the muzzles would stay downrange. In other words, they were tailoring the program for new shooters.

Sounds like money well spent. I'm in!

Definitely it is.

As far as the history goes, what they do is centered around the Lexington/Concord events. The parts I enjoyed the most were actually personal and not (for obvious reasons) part of the standard AS presentation. One instructor was a British immigrant who left just before the total gun bans, which against the historical backdrop of the British gun confiscations two hundred-odd years ago was very moving.

I have a different perspective than maybe even the Appleseed people do. At least some of them don't want to be called a Second Amendment organization--well, if that term means something like the NRA/GOA/etc., that's true. And I don't want to contradict them on it, because I fear they have good political reasons not to be called that (there are already places they can't yet go because someone doesn't like them--they shoot horrible evil guns, you know). I do not want to do anything that would reduce their ability to do what they are doing.

But the fact is that having left a free country and moved to California, it is clear to me that the simple act of owning or shooting a gun is inherently political. The fact that there are places where they are not welcome is proof enough. To think otherwise is to think that a rabbit can choose not to be a prey animal--the foxes have made him one unilaterally. I would say that they are a Prefatory Clause Second Amendment organization. By that I mean that the PC says that a key reason for the right protected by the Operative Clause is the training of the militia--which in their language is everyone subject to being called up in an emergency. Free, responsible citizens are expected to use the right to be prepared to support their home and country. That's what Appleseed does--it trains the people. That's why, ultimately, it won't work to say they're apolitical--the Foxes know very well that training riflemen creates people who know the lies about the inherent evil of guns for what they are. Some of those riflemen will even realize that the entire ethos of the Constitution is to trust your neighbor *more* than your government, not less, and not to depend on the government even if it can do something for you because the very act of dependence makes you unfree.

But you can ignore that and just go and learn to shoot much, much better if you must. It's great for that--the military positions are pretty much what you need for hunting or anything practical.

7x57

[MustangO4]

the entire ethos of the Constitution is to trust your neighbor *more* than your government, not less, and not to depend on the government even if it can do something for you because the very act of dependence makes you unfree.

That there is a great line. If it is yours, kudos, because it's my new sig.

[7x57]

That there is a great line. If it is yours, kudos, because it's my new sig.

Thanks! It's possible that my subconscious is borrowing a phrase I don't consciously remember reading, but so far as I know the phrasing is mine. I hope I am simply paraphrasing the ideas of the Revolutionary generation without change.

7x57

[sb_pete]

Definitely worth it. Best bang for the buck marksmanship training I can think of. I also learned a lot about my equipment. What had been getting the job done for plinking and such was just insufficient for the appleseed. It raised the bar somewhat for what I expect from my guns.

While I knew the positions, bone vs muscle, NPOA, and slings going in, they were much refined and more deeply ingrained going out. I already knew alot of what they were going to teach (certainly not all), but I still found the program INCREDIBLY useful. I think that says alot.

Go, enjoy it. And bring a friend.

[xrMike]

Where do I go to find out more about these 'Appleseed' events? Locations, dates, cost, etc. Thanks.

[GenLee]

Where do I go to find out more about these 'Appleseed' events? Locations, dates, cost, etc. Thanks.

+1 I would like to know as well.

[Dr Rockso]

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/as_schedule.htm

Lots in California this year.

[aileron]

I went last year, was a great experience, and I have been trying to get all my shots in a one inch box at 25 yards ever since.

You will leave the program with an appreciation of what level you should be shooting at. If it bothers you at all that your not at that level, you will probably continue to practice after leaving and shoot with a purpose when you go out. They will get you working correctly towards being a good shot, and knowing why you are or are not.

If it wasn't for going to that program, I would probably never dry fire. Now I do, and I do it often.

It was the cheap and very good. Worth every penny.

Still am not at rifleman level though, but thats my fault.

[jacques]

I believe mostly anything that needs to be said has been. This is a great program. I am going to my 3rd next weekend, and am planning on getting my rifleman status this time.

This is excellent training and a lot of fun. A great opportunnity to meet people also that are into the same thing. Which one are you planning on going to?

[CmpsdNoMore]

I've never been to an Appleseed shoot before, but I'm planning on going to one this spring or summer. Either the one at South Bay Rod and Gun (Dulzura) or the one in Corona.
It's free for people under 21, so I wanted to take advantage of that while I can.

[timmyb21]

Here's an odd question...can I bring one rifle one day and a different one the second? I'm thinking 10/22 for the first and my M1A for the second. I figure for learning the proper techniques might as well take away some of the recoil induced problems, and on the second day throw in the big gun and see what I can do.

[dixieD]

Here's an odd question...can I bring one rifle one day and a different one the second? I'm thinking 10/22 for the first and my M1A for the second. I figure for learning the proper techniques might as well take away some of the recoil induced problems, and on the second day throw in the big gun and see what I can do.

Yes you can do that. 10/22 does help with the training, and the wallet.