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It was a great day at the range....

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  • MarikinaMan
    Veteran Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 4864

    It was a great day at the range....

    I took up long range precision shooting 6 months ago. Its been a long road of studying theory, physics, technique and plain ole practical experience. Read many books on the matter. My head is chock full of buzz words like, Minute of Angle, Milliradians, Mildot, front focal plane, wind drift, thermal mirage, vapor trails, bullet drop, yards, inches, meters, barrel twist, grains, and many more. The last couple of months has been ok, but it just didnt feel like I really got it, until today.

    Arrived at the range and I had to re-zero the scope after taking it off to fix another issue with my rifle. When I arrived, I couldnt get on paper. 10 clicks here, 5 clicks there, I was all over the place. I finally started doing hold overs and found that I was 1.5 feet to the right. So Im there thinking in feet and inches. How many inches is a click at 100 yards? I had no idea. I tried 3 clicks, 10 clicks, 20 clicks, still, no impact. In desperation, I tapped the guy next to me. I noticed he was shooting in 6.5 Creedmor and sporting a Nightforce scope. He's gotta to know what he's doing, right? I'd lent him my spotting scope earlier as he forgot his. He was gracious, came over and helped.

    As I said earlier, I've studied a lot of theory, but I didnt feel like I completely understood what I've read. I explained my predicament, and he asked me, "how many mildots off are you"? I looked into the scope one more time and saw 3 whole mildots. He responded "that's 30 clicks".

    BAM! It hit me. Such a simple answer, but I got hit with an epiphany. There are 10 clicks for each milliradian on my turrets. Every 10 clicks is equal to the distance between each mildot on the reticle. Having a front focal plane scope, I dont need to convert to inches, I just need to think in percentages!

    I put in the 30 clicks, BULLSEYE at 100 yards! Again, the two shots touching.


    Peered out to 300 yards, first shot is off the 12 inch plate 1/3 of the way between mildots. I put in 3 clicks, took the shot, Ding! went the steel plate, BULLSEYE! Tried 500 and 600 yards, same thing. Man, I think I finally got it!

    Learned a few more things thru the day. I took notes of the angle of thermal mirage relative to the wind and how much I needed to compensate at specific distance. Will be checking the validity of these numbers in the future. Sweet. Knowing how to properly compensate for misses, I was able to focus on ballistics. The Remington Premier Match 69 grain hollow point boat tail ammo I was using was hitting targets spot on from 100 to 600 yards based on the bullet drop table from the Ballistic AE app I had on my phone. The Norma 77 grain Sierra Match King ammo however was hitting low considerably at 500 and 600 yards. I estimated the difference between point of impact and dialed the compensation into the scope using my new found knowledge. Boom!, BULLSEYE! Plugged in the Point of Impact discrepancy into the Ballistic AE app. It recomputed and said the ammo was short 100 feet per second of velocity at the muzzle. With a recalibrated ballistic table, I was hitting multiple gongs in a row.

    From then on, I was on the dot. I hit the 12 inch tall Rams and 8"x8" steel gongs at 600 yards consistently, even switching ammo. When I got really comfortable, I started practicing ranging with just the scope. The 18"x24" steel gong at 600 yards at Angeles Range, according to my computation, is actually 568 yards away. Turned my scope turrets accordingly , took a shot, 1 shot, 1 hit! Yay.

    I also met a couple of guys from the country of my birth at the range who were really cool and made new friends. I let one of the guys try my rifle, and I watched the shot on the spotting scope. For the first time ever, I saw the vapor trail of my bullets as it dove into the target. Way cool.

    It was a great day.

    Lessons learned: 1. learning to shoot on multiple rifles with different scope, reticles and turrets was not a good thing for me. 2. Wolf Gold was grouping so, so at 100 yards, but was hitting gongs consistently at 600. Who knew? 3. I had a helluva time getting the bullet drop for the Norma 77gr vs. the 69 and 55 I was shooting. Results were also inconsistent compared to the rest. Not sure if its the ammo that inconsistent, or my AR doesnt like it over 300 yards. 4. Now I gotta figure out my MOA MOA scopes.
    Last edited by MarikinaMan; 04-24-2016, 7:12 PM.
  • #2
    ElvenSoul
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Apr 2008
    • 17431

    Nothing like getting out and doing it!
    sigpic

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    • #3
      russ69
      Calguns Addict
      • Nov 2009
      • 9348

      I hate to be the one to say it but two shots is not a group. You will want to shoot some groups (5 or 10 shot) in order to see if you have a handle on being a good shot. That is the only way to tell what is going on. Keep going and add some more data so you know what is happening.
      sigpic

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      • #4
        MarikinaMan
        Veteran Member
        • Nov 2015
        • 4864

        Originally posted by russ69
        I hate to be the one to say it but two shots is not a group. You will want to shoot some groups (5 or 10 shot) in order to see if you have a handle on being a good shot. That is the only way to tell what is going on. Keep going and add some more data so you know what is happening.
        I shot 2 to 3 shots at 100 yards when switching ammo to confirm that there was no change in POI and that my zero was zero. I moved on to longer ranges after confirmation. I was not trying to group at 100. It was not the days objective. The main event of the day was learning to hit targets beyond 300 yards consistently. If I had the ability to show those shots, that's what Id be showing. All I have are my boring zero test shots.

        Now that I have a handle on whats happening, why its happening and how to address it, I will be doing as you say and start collecting data. Thanks.

        I already know from previous range trips how the rifle groups at 100.


        Out further on another day.
        Last edited by MarikinaMan; 04-25-2016, 12:34 PM.

        Comment

        • #5
          Black Majik
          Calguns Addict
          • Oct 2005
          • 9695

          Sounds like a lot of fun, keep at it.

          Angeles is a great range and you'll continue to improve as time and practice is invested.

          Good luck

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          • #6
            MarikinaMan
            Veteran Member
            • Nov 2015
            • 4864

            Lesson 5- taking off the scope and reinstalling it made 30 clicks of difference. I had no idea. I thought I'd be off 5 click max.

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            • #7
              Cody
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2009
              • 2148

              It's best to start at 25 yards when trying to sight in a scope. When you zero in there (actually need to be about 1.5 inches low) then you'll be pretty close at 100 yards. Here's a good video to watch. You'll save yourself a lot of ammo this way.


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              • #8
                RandyD
                Calguns Addict
                • Jan 2009
                • 6673

                Anytime I change or put on a new scope, I always shoot my first zeroing shots at 25 yards. I have wasted too much ammo and time, trying to initially zero a new scope at 100 yards. Usually 2 to 3 shots at 25 yards is all it takes to insure you are on paper at 100 yards.
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                • #9
                  MarikinaMan
                  Veteran Member
                  • Nov 2015
                  • 4864

                  Originally posted by RandyD
                  Anytime I change or put on a new scope, I always shoot my first zeroing shots at 25 yards. I have wasted too much ammo and time, trying to initially zero a new scope at 100 yards. Usually 2 to 3 shots at 25 yards is all it takes to insure you are on paper at 100 yards.
                  Im going to be doing this.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    heidad01
                    Veteran Member
                    • Feb 2012
                    • 4902

                    If you bore site the scope, your first shot will be on the paper and very close to the X at 100 yards. 1 moa is 3.6 inches at 100 yards and one milrad is 10 centimeters (about 4 inches) at 100 yards. Your torrets are marked and show if a click is 1/4, 1/8, or 1/10 of what ever you have on the scope (moa or milrad).
                    It is pretty easy to count from there.

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                    • #11
                      SandBlastedSkin
                      Member
                      • Apr 2010
                      • 249

                      Originally posted by MarikinaMan
                      I shot 2 to 3 shots at 100 yards when switching ammo to confirm that there was no change in POI and that my zero was zero. I moved on to longer ranges after confirmation. I was not trying to group at 100. It was not the days objective. The main event of the day was learning to hit targets beyond 300 yards consistently. If I had the ability to show those shots, that's what Id be showing. All I have are my boring zero test shots.

                      Now that I have a handle on whats happening, why its happening and how to address it, I will be doing as you say and start collecting data. Thanks.

                      I already know from previous range trips how the rifle groups at 100.


                      Out further on another day.
                      That targets are those in the bottom picture?!

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        MarikinaMan
                        Veteran Member
                        • Nov 2015
                        • 4864

                        Originally posted by SandBlastedSkin
                        That targets are those in the bottom picture?!
                        6 inch B&Caseys and 12x18 Splatter bursts. I have a hard time seeing holes in paper at 200 and 300

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Cody
                          Senior Member
                          • Jul 2009
                          • 2148

                          Originally posted by heidad01
                          If you bore site the scope, your first shot will be on the paper and very close to the X at 100 yards. 1 moa is 3.6 inches at 100 yards and one milrad is 10 centimeters (about 4 inches) at 100 yards. Your torrets are marked and show if a click is 1/4, 1/8, or 1/10 of what ever you have on the scope (moa or milrad).
                          It is pretty easy to count from there.
                          One "mil" is about 3.6 inches at 100 yards. 1 MOA is slightly more than 1 inch at 100 yards.
                          Here's a link that explains it well.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            SandBlastedSkin
                            Member
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 249

                            Originally posted by MarikinaMan
                            6 inch B&Caseys and 12x18 Splatter bursts. I have a hard time seeing holes in paper at 200 and 300
                            Thanks! Me too. Those targets look perfect for me.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              russ69
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Nov 2009
                              • 9348

                              Originally posted by MarikinaMan
                              I already know from previous range trips how the rifle groups at 100.
                              That looks promising.
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