What exactly did we learn from Mogadishu?

[3000+]

I just watched Black Hawk Down for probably the 10th time, and this time I was paying extra close attention to how the rifles and carbines were set up, particularly the Delta guys. I was trying to pick out specific differences in the guns they were running back in '93 as opposed to today's conflicts. I noticed an M21 being used, Aimpoint red dots, lights mounted at the 6 o'clock position, and suppressors. I assume most people were also using M193 back then.

My question is what did we learn from the conflict and what did we take away from it? Now we have more capable rounds like Mk 262 MOD 1 and M855A1, lighter setups, railed handguards, smaller suppressors and PEQs. How did we improve our tactics and ground maneuvers? How did the battle impact how we set up our weapons and go about battlefield activities?

In other words, and in summary: how would we have gone about it differently if it happened today? And what improvements have we made to small arms and how they're issued (not that this was a major reason that we lost lives)?

[AreWeFree]

What's your take away from the movie?

[3000+]

What's your take away from the movie?

My take-away was that the men on the ground did exactly what they were told to do and did it well, the JOC did their best to rectify a disaster, unforeseen circumstances were everywhere, and Washington should always grant permission for AC-130 gunship support.

[AreWeFree]

My take-away was that the men on the ground did exactly what they were told to do and did it well, the JOC did their best to rectify a disaster, unforeseen circumstances were everywhere, and Washington should always grant permission for AC-130 gunship support.

And how do you think ammo, optics, or handguards would have changed that situation?

[Chameleon Loco]

Watch for rpg fire then use the new army's hk long range rifles to push the militants back finally send in the grunts with m16a4s to clean up

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[3000+]

And how do you think ammo, optics, or handguards would have changed that situation?

I was asking two separate questions. I'll edit the OP to have it make more sense. What I meant to ask is how would we have gone about it if it happened today

[AreWeFree]

I was asking two separate questions. I'll edit the OP to have it make more sense. What I meant to ask is how would we have gone about it if it happened today

Do you mean what would we do today in response to the disaster?

[SonofWWIIDI]

Historically, government "officials" have been eager to send our fighting forces to the gates of hell in order to prove their (the elitists) resolve...and not wipe every one of the enemy out.

Of course the governmental elite has rarely followed through, and ended up rewarding those who would commit atrocities by rebuilding the offending countries, building up the lesser (than our elitists) yet still entitled class...who then rebeled against freedom and democracy.

The elitist class just wants money, power and control. Unfortunately the sheeple here have continued to elect leaders who offer "free" stuff, delivered on the backs of the average joe.

We need to go back to public servants who actually serve the public not the takers, and promote that across the globe.

Don't get me started!

[uechikid]

I guess my question is, why is this posted in the semi automatic gas operated section?

[stix213]

As for the 2nd part of your question, problem is we're basically at the limit of current firearm technology until some new technological leap happens. Other than minor accessory improvements, there hasn't been any significant progress in firearms tech since at least the 1960's.

Firearms today aren't really that much more capable than they were back then, which is why mid-20th century designs like the AR-15 and AK are still so popular today both in military and civilian. Its not because they were just so greatly designed, its that we've reached the limit and can't really design firearms that much better. The shooter is still the most important part of the equation.

Yeah we've got more ergo features, better ways to attach things, better designed accessories, but those just improve things around the edges. They aren't some type of game changing leap forward.

[xsefan]

My take-away was that the men on the ground did exactly what they were told to do and did it well, the JOC did their best to rectify a disaster, unforeseen circumstances were everywhere, and Washington should always grant permission for AC-130 gunship support.

They didn't do what they were told or trained to do. Not taking water not taking rear plates for body armor. Failure to follow simple instructions is what got most of those guys killed. Typically army fail. Watch the movie again notice all the problems start with the Marines turning over control to the army . Then it stops when the Marines are back in counrty
I have always wondered how the Marine Corps is 25% the size of the army with old out of date equipment ,yet they still do a better job than the army. Army boot camp is too short. No combat training for non infantry personal. It's sad that was a complete faileron of senior staff.
They left their two 240 gunners behind. Another fail.
Thats what I learned watching the movie.
To be fair I was in combat training when that movie came out.
Right off the bat our corporal told us to watch it when we had liberty .
He said watch it it's the best lesson on why you follow orders . Don't try to take short cuts.

[not-fishing]

Take away? Clinton was an ******* for not letting them have Tanks.

[sovereign2b]

They didn't do what they were told or trained to do. Not taking water not taking rear plates for body armor. Failure to follow simple instructions is what got most of those guys killed. Typically army fail. Watch the movie again notice all the problems start with the Marines turning over control to the army . Then it stops when the Marines are back in counrty
I have always wondered how the Marine Corps is 25% the size of the army with old out of date equipment ,yet they still do a better job than the army. Army boot camp is too short. No combat training for non infantry personal. It's sad that was a complete faileron of senior staff.
They left their two 240 gunners behind. Another fail.
Thats what I learned watching the movie.
To be fair I was in combat training when that movie came out.
Right off the bat our corporal told us to watch it when we had liberty .
He said watch it it's the best lesson on why you follow orders . Don't try to take short cuts.

Alright, it's late/early and I don't have much time, but I was there for the first 40 or so days, and when we handed things over to the Army and the U.N. (Paki's and Indian's - what a great combo there)... we thought that it was basically all wrapped-up.

For the first 3 weeks, I was in charge of Marine security for Mr. Oakley, the Special Envoy, working with 4 State Dept. Security personnel, and living in the only compound in Mogadishu that had running water and power. Long story. I do want to note that these State Dept. guys were very good and very well-trained. Every day, I went with 3 other Marines and John Beaudry to the compounds of Ali-Mahdi and Aidid, one at a time, to pick these fools up and bring them back to this compound for negotiations with Mr. Oakley and a handful of high brass. I'm convinced that they only came for the gourmet chow (French Chef and all) served here.

CNN was in some blasted-up hovel behind and off to one side of us. Every morning when we'd raise Colors on the roof of this well-defended mansion, some chick from one of the news' outlets would walk around naked in that building and give us a show. Christiane Amanpour was there, in that building, but this was some blonde. Anyway...

Bush 1 flew in during his last weeks in office and commissioned Mr. Oakley (or whatever it is termed) Ambassador to Somalia, which was ridiculous. That place was a sh**hole beyond sh**holes and the place reeked like exactly that, combined with the reek of dead bodies. I was responsible, in part, for the Pres's security and got a nice NavCom for it, that should have went to each of my Marines.

Yes, except for Marine-specific weapons, everything that I ever used said: "Property of the U.S. Army" on it. Back then, all we got was hand-me-downs, and we did a much better job with them than those who gave them to us.

After 3 weeks, the word was given to the 2 main warlords above that they could keep their weapons, but only in their compounds. Any technicals or persons with weapons would be considered targets, and would be fired upon. I was relieved by an old friend, and went back to my unit, which was busy still digging out positions on the old embassy compound, and we started going neighborhood to neighborhood, disarming the populace. For the most part, this didn't go too bad. I snapped pics in both compounds (I think both), and maybe I'll post some. I'm also on the History Channel in a few places, but no royalties, sadly. Nothing like driving in with some driver who you don't know, in some boonie car, into a compound with several hundred armed men, heavy guns - even tanks.. pointed right at you. You hope that the boss is in a good mood.

After a couple of weeks of this clean-up of arms and technicals, as well as the compounds of some minor players that we didn't recognize, it seemed like a done deal - or we would have stayed. We had encountered some resistance that was met with fire, and we were attacked with small arms, grenades, and RPG's throughout the whole ordeal, and I had some close calls, myself. My Corpsman got shot on one patrol - and it made the news, which we had to let tag along on this patrol. I had given him a pistol at his request, so I guess he was technically a "combatant." My bad. He lived.

As for how it could have been different, regarding tactics and gear... there was a whole lot more to that place than what is shown on Black Hawk Down, for sure - and no, I haven't watched the movie all the way through. There was no "humanitarian" mission that I saw, for one. Lots and lots of food everywhere, actually. I was, in fact, told by J.B., that we were there to eventually put in a ship-repair facility at Mogadishu, having recently relinquished the P.I. and Subic to sovereign control. Whether that is true or not, I don't know, but that's what I was told.

We figured that it all went to sh** because we handed it over to the Army and the U.N. One nice thing about going to schools at Ft. Benning was no boots and utes P-T. Everybody was falling out in nice running shoes and Army sweatshirts - except us. We only saw running shoes off-duty or during the PFT. I was shocked the first time that I saw this. Also, yeah... back then their boot camp was like a summer camp. Before I separated, the Corps also sissy'd up boot camp a bit. Green cards and all. I sure hope that changed.

[mif_slim]

Not really answering the question, but we learned that when we tuck tail and run, terrorist see that they can use it as an example. Create.a big enough scene and "they" will run. Im not talking about the men on the ground, im talking about the politicians sitting at their comfy desk barking orders.

[Write Winger]

We'd leave them there to die and blame it on a YouTube video...