How does split residency work?

[bug_eyedmonster]

As an accountant, I understand from a tax standpoint, how residency works, but what about firearms purchasing? Can I legally reside in two different states, with vehicles/property in both and legally purchase guns in both? I am possibly looking at buying a place and sharing with a friend, is that a possibility?


Jerry

[keenkeen]

It doesn't.

[bug_eyedmonster]

It doesn't.

As in I legally cannot live in two states and purchase guns?

[laurelpark]

From what I've personally encountered, it's not easy. I had residences in two states for a while, and everything I researched led me to believe that I had to choose one state "permanently" as my residence. It was kind of a bummer because I had a place up in Oregon, and it was nice to be able to buy whatever I wanted tax free, and still have a place in CA where my company was located. About fifteen years ago the systems in the different states got so tightly integrated that it's not easy to do it and fly under the radar.

[mdolvn]

As in I legally cannot live in two states and purchase guns?

As in, you are correct. You cannot live in two states and purchase guns to bring back.

[pterrell]

Someone will cite the ATF's instruction on this, but it boils down to where you spend the most time between the two. If you physically spend 9 months of the year in CA and 3 months of the year in AZ then the ATF considers you a CA resident for purposes of purchasing firearms. If you legitimately make an even 50/50 split between the two, I believe you are left to decide on your own but you have to stick to your choice.

[penguin0123]

According to ATF, it is your "intent" to make that state a home. I can't find a legal definition of that on google.

My layman's thinking is that if you were registered to vote in AZ, owns property there, pay taxes there, visit regularly, and are vocal in your intent to retire there, you are a resident of AZ. So what if you are working in CA? You are always looking for alternative employment but you just never found the right combination of financial and personal satisfaction so you kept chugging along in your CA job.

My $0.02 is that as long as CA gets a cut of your payroll tax, they don't care. It is $ they're after. It always boils down to $.

A person’s “State of residence” is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 478.11 as “the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State.” Ownership of a home or land within a given State is not sufficient, by itself, to establish a State of residence. However, ownership of a home or land within a particular State is not required to establish presence and intent to make a home in that State. Furthermore, temporary travel, such as short-term stays, vacations, or other transient acts in a State are not sufficient to establish a State of residence because the individual demonstrates no intention of making a home in that State.

https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download

[CAL.BAR]

Yeah, I can't see where this is a problem. If you own a home/reside in say OR and have an OR driver's lic. and also happen to own property in CA and spend time in CA, you go into an OR gun store. Show your OR license. Do the dros forms put down your OR residence, do the instant background check and leave.

Do you assume that there is some magic monkey in a back room somewhere cross referencing your tax payments to figure out where you spend the most time? Where you pay the most tax?

[wireless]

As in I legally cannot live in two states and purchase guns?

Dual residency and purchasing firearms comes down to two issues, the first one being the ATF's interruption of dual residency.

According to ATF, it is your "intent" to make that state a home. I can't find a legal definition of that on google.


https://www.atf.gov/file/55496/download

The ATF issue is easily avoidable and can be worked out legally. If you split time between the two residences and keep said firearms in each location you can technically purchase firearms in both states.


The real problem is how each state determines residency. Most states do not allow people to hold drivers licenses from two states. Oregon being one of them. If you surrender your CA license, register your vehicle with Oregon DMV, and obtain an Oregon drivers license, then you could purchase firearms in Oregon as a resident. The other option is obtaining a State ID from 1st state and a drivers license from the 2nd state.


Here is Oregon's residency requirements, see page 2

http://www.odot.state.or.us/forms/dmv/7182fill.pdf

If you do not meet their residency requirements you cannot obtain an Oregon drivers license or a state ID. There are ways you can obtain dual residency, but you must meet each state's requirements, otherwise the ATF will consider you a resident of only one state when transferring a firearm from a FFL and filling out a 4473.

However, the ATF's definition of residency is not dependent upon having a state ID card. Transferring a firearm on a 4473 does require a government issued ID which has your address on it. There are some exceptions to the address requirement. Some states allow a CHL/LTC/CCW as proof of passing a brady backround check. Residency is going to be required while obtaining one of these carry licenses. So either way you are going to have to establish residency is some formal way before a FFL will do a transfer.

If you live in Oregon for 5 months a year for business and spend 7 months in California for vacation, you do meet the ATF's definition of what a resident is. But as I already said, you don't meet Oregon's requirements in order to obtain a state ID. Dual residency without a second state ID per ATF's requirements would still allow you to fill out a Form 1 to build NFA items (no 4473). The NFA item would have to be built in correct state and remain in state, in a locked safe, while you are on vacation in CA. Unfortunately though you won't be able to buy firearms. If the State allowed for private party transfers without a background check, and the buyer didn't check your ID, you would still legally be purchasing that firearm as a resident of that state per ATF definition. This wouldn't work for Oregon, but it would for Idaho. Still, you'll have a hard time buying a gun PPT without a person verifying residency. If you go to Arizona gun forums or armslist and look at the for sale section, most indicate that you'll have to show a valid ID or carry license when buying a gun from them.

So technically you can have a "home" in both states, neither of them being short term, but that isn't enough to be able to buy a firearm in both states due to Brady background check conundrum. In Oregon owning property and paying taxes is not enough to be a resident. I own property in Klamath County and pay taxes on it, so I have some experience trying to figure this all out.

[-hanko]

As an accountant, I understand from a tax standpoint, how residency works, but what about firearms purchasing? Can I legally reside in two different states, with vehicles/property in both and legally purchase guns in both? I am possibly looking at buying a place and sharing with a friend, is that a possibility?


Jerry

Ianal, or close to it. Go to the BATFE website and search for residency. Generally, if you and other person intend to make a home in another state, you are gtg. You are NOT required to purchase property.

If your only reason for establishing residency is to buy weapons you'd prefer to get outside California, you're on thin ice federally, let alone possible Californication in California.

It does not matter where you vote, where your car was registered, whether or not you work in the other state, etc. For further clarification, I'd suggest you seek competent legal vice, which you won't get online, just like seeing an accountant v. posting tax questions here.

[Chewy65]

There are special rules to determine one's state of residency for some purposes, such as active service members and students attending out of state schools. While the Feds considered some person's with homes in two states, such as AZ and CA, to be residents of the state in which they were at the time, CA closed that loophole by requiring its residents to import handguns bought in other states by having them first imported via a CA FFL, who then applied the roster and barred the importation of off roster handguns.

[Sharp Shooter]

This question has been asked before. The short answer is it's extremely difficult if not impossible. A quick google search produced this result:

http://www.rapidtax.com/blog/can-resident-two-states-time/#.VvsOVfBHarV

As an accountant I'm sure you understand the negative tax implications.

Also each state has their own requirements for establishing residency. Here is Arizona's:

http://www.ehow.com/how_12102946_establish-arizona-residency.html

Read the last paragraph. It says that if you are a resident of any other state you cannot be a resident of Arizona.

There is much more info if you Google it.

[L84CABO]

As previously posted, here's what the ATF has to say...

What constitutes residency in a State?

For Gun Control Act (GCA) purposes, a person is a resident of a State in which he or she is present with the intention of making a home in that State. The State of residence for a corporation or other business entity is the State where it maintains a place of business. A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained.

[18 U.S.C. 921(b), 922(a)(3), and 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.11]

And here's what Kamala Harris has to say on the subject...

What is the process for purchasing a firearm in California?
Generally, all firearms purchases and transfers, including private party transactions and sales at gun shows, must be made through a California licensed dealer under the Dealer’s Record of Sale (DROS) process. California law imposes a 10-day waiting period before a firearm can be released to a purchaser or transferee. A person must be at least 18 years of age to purchase a rifle or shotgun. To purchase a handgun, a person must be at least 21 years of age. As part of the DROS process, the purchaser must present "clear evidence of identity and age" which is defined as a valid, non-expired California Driver's License or Identification Card issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). A military identification accompanied by permanent duty station orders indicating a posting in California is also acceptable.

If the purchaser is not a U.S. Citizen, then he or she is required to demonstrate that he or she is legally within the United States by providing the firearms dealer with documentation containing his/her Alien Registration Number or I-94 Number.

Purchasers of handguns must provide proof of California residency, such as a utility bill, residential lease, property deed, or government-issued identification (other than a drivers license or other DMV-issued identification), and either (1) possess a Handgun Safety Certificate (HSC) plus successfully complete a safety demonstration with their recently purchased handgun or (2) qualify for an HSC exemption.

So to purchase a firearm in California, one would need to a) have the intention of making a home in California. I assume this could mean buy a house, rent an apartment, live in a van down by the docks, etc., to satisfy the Federal requirement. And b) for the state requirement, you could use a utility bill and either a Ca Drivers License or ID card.

Note that you can't possess a drivers license from two different states but I don't think they restrict the ID Cards like this. It actually seems relatively simple...so what am I overlooking?

And please don't just speculate. Please post the appropriate ATF rules or state rules why this can't be done and/or why something else is needed.

Also, wasn't Mr. Peruta a resident in two states? I'm trying to remember the details there.

[-hanko]

As in, you are correct. You cannot live in two states and purchase guns to bring back.

Having done that from 1986 to 2002, I beg to disagree.

[L84CABO]

This question has been asked before. The short answer is it's extremely difficult if not impossible. A quick google search produced this result:

http://www.rapidtax.com/blog/can-resident-two-states-time/#.VvsOVfBHarV

As an accountant I'm sure you understand the negative tax implications.

Also each state has their own requirements for establishing residency. Here is Arizona's:

http://www.ehow.com/how_12102946_establish-arizona-residency.html

Read the last paragraph. It says that if you are a resident of any other state you cannot be a resident of Arizona.

There is much more info if you Google it.

Except residency...or dual residency for tax purposes may be different than dual residency for purchasing a firearm. I don't think we should automatically assume they are the same.