A la zimmerman

[calnovice]

Does anyone have an answer why we train on (and get certificates for) targets many yards away when in a real life personal attacks thug most likely close enough to smell his breath? Shouldn't we have training on shooting someone who has an arm around you and slugging you, too? A recent chat here criticized a homeowner shooting after a criminal driving away in homeowner's car. Do I want to shoot someone several yards away as how does that represent a life threat?

[3rd_gear]

Practice this in the mirror. Dont forget to ask "Yo homie, is that my briefcase?"

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jmKR6evZRQQ

[Divernhunter]

Shoot now I have less of a reason for practicing at 1000 yards with my 50BMG or 300 yards with my M1A

[TurboS600]

I've always had the same thoughts as the OP when I am completing the qualifying range of fire for my CCW. They have us shoot 5 rounds at 15 yards. Seriously? 45 feet? To me that seems like a pretty good head start and very unlikely that anyone is going to make any good hits at that distance. I'm not able to run very well but I still think I could run to cover or get away from all but the most determined attacker. At that distance they would have to have something personal against me to continue the attack/chase.

I'm with you OP. Handguns for personal defense should be in the point blank to 7 yard range. Further than that would be the domain of the long gun.

[8886]

^ Or if you had to fight your way to a long gun...

[Cokebottle]

Do I want to shoot someone several yards away as how does that represent a life threat?

Remember the rule of 3's

Average CCW incident takes place at 3 yards.
3 rounds are fired.
The whole thing is over (shots fired or not) in 3 seconds.
Most importantly... Any person closer than 30ft is a potential immediate threat.

Attacker with a knife at 30ft, you're going to get cut.
It takes 1/2 second to react and act.
A good shooter can draw and fire on-target in 2 seconds.
A 5mph brisk walk will close 14ft in 2 seconds.

I've always had the same thoughts as the OP when I am completing the qualifying range of fire for my CCW. They have us shoot 5 rounds at 15 yards. Seriously? 45 feet?

Our qualification was at 5 yards.

BUT... keep in mind the level of training of most people.
That nice group at 5 yards is going to look like the 15 yard group under duress.

[Ron-Solo]

One of my on duty shootings was at 46 feet. Two suspects had handguns and the third had an AK-47. They all shot first, almost simultaneously. I had an Ithica 12 gauge pump with 5 rounds of "00" buck. They shot first, I shot best. All three were hit and taken out of action.

Forty-six feet seemed extremely close that night. Running away just wasn't an option.

I was lucky.

LASD trains from distances varying between 3-25 yards during various courses of fire. I alway took every aspect of training like my life depended on it and sometimes it did.

[ojisan]

You are more than lucky, Ron.
Staying focused and shooting straight counts.
I'm happy that you are here with us today.


My focus is on the events in the two take-over armed robberies at my work.
Distances were bad-breath close to 20 feet.

[pacrat]

One of my on duty shootings was at 46 feet. Two suspects had handguns and the third had an AK-47. They all shot first, almost simultaneously. I had an Ithica 12 gauge pump with 5 rounds of "00" buck. They shot first, I shot best. All three were hit and taken out of action.

Forty-six feet seemed extremely close that night. Running away just wasn't an option.

I was lucky.

LASD trains from distances varying between 3-25 yards during various courses of fire. I alway took every aspect of training like my life depended on it and sometimes it did.

Wyatt Earp said,

"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything. In a gun fight... You need to take your time in a hurry."

Glad you shot straight in a hurry Ron.

[Ron-Solo]

You are more than lucky, Ron.
Staying focused and shooting straight counts.
I'm happy that you are here with us today.


My focus is on the events in the two take-over armed robberies at my work.
Distances were bad-breath close to 20 feet.

Since I retired, most of my practice distances are closer, because at longer distances I will try to withdraw rather than engage. I spend most of my ammo engaging multiple targets at 3, 5 & 10 yards. Those always include head shots in case the suspect is wearing body armor.

That said, I still practice longer distances. One of the ranges I go to has a chest size steel plate at 75 yards. I still ring that gong consistently with my M&P and Beretta 92F when I go there to shoot.

[BrokerB]

Your local super market lanes are longer then 40 feet. There are many places that are long and narrow with no good retreats.

If you are going to play percentages....why bother even carrying a gun.

Aim small, miss small from all ranges.

[Jimi Jah]

I practice at 21 feet, 3 steps for the average threat and the amount of time you need to respond to it. Otherwise you might as well practice wrestling.

[Cal10]

There are different ways to shoot as well, most people practice with two hands extended shooting at paper 7-25 yds. Up close you will be lucky to get a one handed hip shot off. One handed retention shots are tricky and most ranges frown on people shooting from behind the table and low from the hip so it's a hard thing to practice but you should IMO if you can. The trick is to plant the mag butt into your hip with the slide clear from your clothing and wrist. The other hand is in a defensive block position up high and extended and you aim (pointshoot) for the belly region so as to keep your blocking arm out of the line of fire. Best to dry fire practice this and check your muzzle direction before live fire, if you want to keep your blocking arm. Bring the target in to 1-2 yds.

[Cokebottle]

That said, I still practice longer distances. One of the ranges I go to has a chest size steel plate at 75 yards. I still ring that gong consistently with my M&P and Beretta 92F when I go there to shoot.

The 92 shoots itself doesn't it.
My wife loves hers.

[Spyder]

Seriously? 45 feet? To me that seems like a pretty good head start and very unlikely that anyone is going to make any good hits at that distance. I'm not able to run very well but I still think I could run to cover or get away from all but the most determined attacker. At that distance they would have to have something personal against me to continue the attack/chase.

Some would say that the most determined attackers are the ones you should train more for, not less.