City Arms, OLL PPT failed

[chickenfried]

Met a calgunner today at City Arms to do a private party transfer of an OLL. Called Saturday to confirm they would PPT an OLL.

I took off the upper figuring I would give it to the buyer to take home and we would just deal with the lower. Lower is a fulton armory with the original prince50 kit, a bushmaster 10 round magazine, and a pistol grip.

We meet at the counter than inquire with the tall white older gentleman about doing a PPT. He checks out the lower inquires if it's a bullet button. Reply no it's the older fixed only design. Tries the magazine release of course the magazine doesn't release. He steps away for a bit. Upon his return tells us he can't legally transfer the lower. I'm unclear he's either telling us we have to take off the pistol grip and the magazine or we have to take off one or the other. We give up after a few attempts to figure out why it wouldn't be legal to transfer as is.

I go outside me and the other cakgunner say our farewells and discuss another meeting. I head back inside to see what goodies might grab my eye. The same guy sees me browsing and asks me to put the backpack with the lower in it back in my car. I answer sure and just head home.

[PIRATE14]

THEY only do stripped lowers.......

[bigmike82]

That's retarded...

[Captain Evilstomper]

maybe he thought you were a friend of Iggy, just waiting to slap him down...with transferring a totally legal lower, hmmm.
maybe he was just a complete wuss?

[glockfu]

I have only dealt with them on a couple occasions. They seem like nice guys but they dont know all the laws and what exactly is legal and what's not so they don't take any chances.

They were willing to transfer a complete AR-15 to me but wouldn't do a legally configured STG-556. Not sure why but that was my assumption.

[chickenfried]

I'm a little disappointed in another way. I've been dealing with Dmitry since his cow palace days. One of the things I liked about dealing with him was no grumpy old guy syndrome commonly found in gun stores. That vibe was there today.

Also I'd prefer they just say "we choose only do transfers on stripped lowers" rather than "it's illegal". Like they do at Jackson Arms "Even though it's legal we don't do OLL transfers".

[biscuitninja]

Honestly if somebody or someplace would actually educate themselves they'd clean up. I don't know of any place really that is knowledgeable. Next time just sell a stripped lower and assemble the sucker later.

sheesh.
-bix

[hoffmang]

By law, neither FFL can refuse a PPT of an otherwise legal rifle. They can refuse a non PPT transfer however.

-Gene

[M. Sage]

I'm a little disappointed in another way. I've been dealing with Dmitry since his cow palace days. One of the things I liked about dealing with him was no grumpy old guy syndrome commonly found in gun stores. That vibe was there today.

Also I'd prefer they just say "we choose only do transfers on stripped lowers" rather than "it's illegal". Like they do at Jackson Arms "Even though it's legal we don't do OLL transfers".

Only deal with Dmitry. V is a nice guy (most of the time) but a bit of an idiot.

[eaglemike]

We passed out hundreds of the famous Calguns flowcharts at the Del Mar show. If/when I want to transfer something like an OLL, I'll take a few copies if I haven't done a PPT there before. They are petty easy to print, wnat to give that a try?
all the best,
Mike

[csmintel]

Only deal with Dmitry. V is a nice guy (most of the time) but a bit of an idiot.

V- is not a bit idiot. he is a complete idiot....and more. Those who met him ...oh you guys know! Deal only with Dmitry-it's his shop. V is only employee. There is also a Bob with handicapped arm - he is one of the most honest and nicest people I have ever met. Now that tall, thin, gray old man is a bumbling idiot. Just tell him to go away if he tries to help. He actually will point you to a less quality products and insist you buy them first and see if they work for you. If not-he suggests that you comeback and git more expensive.
Anyway. It's a very nice shop but talk only to Dmitry. Tell everyone else that you're just looking and talk price with an onwer (Dmitry). If you transfer a lower : all they ask is that you remove the pistol grip. That's it. Easy as 123 if you don't give them too many options. Be simple, don't confuse employees there and everything will be smooth as a butter because this is one of the greatest stores in bay area!

[QuarterBoreGunner]

Only deal with Dmitry.

Unfortunately Dimi is on vacation for two weeks to UKRAINE!

Weird to hear about the hassle, but, again, unfortunately, they like so many other FFLs are not entirely comfortable with all the details surrounding OLLs.

[jchen76@gmail.com]

Strange how City-arms will sell you a stripped OLL and the parts kit, but not do assembly on it or sell a completed lower. Deal with Dmitri when he gets back.

[M. Sage]

Unfortunately Dimi is on vacation for two weeks to UKRAINE!

Aw, man...

One of my problems with V is that he's testy and has a short fuse. I've actually had to walk out of there a couple of times when he starts on anther (way off-base) tirade rather than try arguing with him and showing him that he's wrong.

[Ironchef]

I can understand the comfort level of some FFLs not willing to dabble in the OLL scene beyond an overly "safe" configuration (stripped, in this case), but if they're saying "legal" or "illegal" then I would think it appropriate to educate (even if it means not being back for future business).

Surely there's a way to explain (with illustrations and appropriate citations) that without an upper, there is no application of 12276 as it is not a centerfire semiauto. Perhaps something along these lines:
"Hi, I meant to explain earlier when I was here but thought I'd get proper citations on paper for you to examine at your leisure since it seems you might not be completely versed in AW laws and legal configurations....here is a flow chart which spells out what is and what isn't ok. Among the details it explains that a lower without an upper receiver is not a firearm..nor is it a semiautomatic centerfire rifle which would apply these restrictions (12276)...etc, etc.."

Maybe preface or conclude the quick, friendly informational discussion by adding "I understand that you may have varied levels of comfort in dealing with such rifles given the unfriendly DOJ/ATF scrutiny you endure so I'm not asking you to change anything as much as I'm just pointing out the laws you might not be familiar with...thanks, goodbye.."