Private Party Transfer 8 months ago

[boopiejones]

The FFL still has the rifle, since he said he had a friend that was going to buy it off of him. Also i always print a spec sheet out on what all the rifle has in terms of parts, and on that form i put "all sales are final, if you fail the background check it is up to you to sell the firearm."

I appreciate the thoughts all. DOJ does say its a civil matter if he wants to take me to court over it.

EDIT: No the ffl does not charge rent and also they keep the firearm and after 1 year the gun becomes property of the FFL dealer. I am technically still the registered owner of the firearm and can take possession of it, since the guy got denied. But he never tried to contact me about getting his money back.

based on this, i would get the rejected buyer in touch with the FFL holding the AR so they can work out the sale to the FFL's friend.

you have the money but don't have the AR. The original buyer likely committed a felony by trying to purchase the gun. therefore it isn't your problem...

[stix213]

The FFL still has the rifle, since he said he had a friend that was going to buy it off of him. Also i always print a spec sheet out on what all the rifle has in terms of parts, and on that form i put "all sales are final, if you fail the background check it is up to you to sell the firearm."

I appreciate the thoughts all. DOJ does say its a civil matter if he wants to take me to court over it.

EDIT: No the ffl does not charge rent and also they keep the firearm and after 1 year the gun becomes property of the FFL dealer. I am technically still the registered owner of the firearm and can take possession of it, since the guy got denied. But he never tried to contact me about getting his money back.

I'd just leave the FFL with it. Not your problem. Let the guy sue you if he wants to.

[dozer wright]

They didn't hold on to it. The law is very specific about what happens when a buyer is denied in a PPT.

Allegedly they did .

[Stevehazard]

Something sounds off here... if a buyer fails a background for a PPT isn't it the responsibility of the FFL to inform you and give you 30 days to get your rifle?

[junior40er]

you are under NO obligation to give him any money back. I am dealing with the same thing.

[junior40er]

wait, you got possession of the AR? If so then while its still registered to you now you either have to give him money back. I would have told dealer that you're not taking it back and deal with buyer. If you took possession then you can be taken to court for the cash. You cant keep both.

[Cogitoergosum]

You have been working at an FFL dealer for 8 years ??? Tell us the full story here por favor

This pretty much is the full story. The FFL we used for the transfer is the one that i work at. One of my coworkers new that i had some AR15's that i was looking to sell and so had me bring them to work so his friend could come check them out. The friend of my coworker is the guy that purchased my gun. I always tell everyone that sales are final, and if you cant own the gun it is up to you to re-sell the firearm. So for all intents and purposes the firearm is the buyers property, and he cant leave the store with the gun because of a DMV-reject.

8 months later, this guy that bought the gun and some other guy comes into the store and asks to return a firearm. We as an FFL dealer will return a firearm in full price with no restocking fee, the only thing we keep is the DROS fee. So the manager comes up, looks at the receipt and says, "im sorry this is not our gun, we cant refund you any money, this was a private party transfer." The guy yells, "You wont return the money? You will be hearing from my lawyers" and storms out of the store. The manager and him spent less then 15 seconds together. We then get a fax in the mail from the buyers "lawyer" who happens to have the same last name, and a simple search showed it was the guy he came into the store with.

The letter:
This letter basically said that there should be no 3rd parties and they bought an item from the store and therefor the store should pay them back in full since they were unable to obtain the property that is being held by the store. They expect a written response within 10 days explaining why the store is keeping their property and refuses to give back their money or legal litigation will ensue.

Enters me:
I call the guy and offer him back his money and explain that the item is now being sold new for $650 shipped and i would be able to do that for him, even though i always state all sales are final.

His stance:
I want my $800, you got my letter and read it im sure, so its $800 or litigation.

[Cogitoergosum]

wait, you got possession of the AR? If so then while its still registered to you now you either have to give him money back. I would have told dealer that you're not taking it back and deal with buyer. If you took possession then you can be taken to court for the cash. You cant keep both.

I did not take possession of the firearm, and the dealer knows that it was the buyers responsibility to take care of it.

[Cogitoergosum]

Something sounds off here... if a buyer fails a background for a PPT isn't it the responsibility of the FFL to inform you and give you 30 days to get your rifle?

I work at the FFL dealer, and yes it can revert back to my ownership. However i clearly state at any PPT that sales are final, and its up to the buyer to re-sell the firearm if they get denied.

[cannon]

Cost his Dad more in litigation time and costs than he will gain with a refund.

Invite him to go kick bricks.

[SomeGuy75]

I work at the FFL dealer, and yes it can revert back to my ownership. However i clearly state at any PPT that sales are final, and its up to the buyer to re-sell the firearm if they get denied.

But can you legally refuse to take back the rifle? I am asking because I don't know myself. If the law says it's the FFLs responsibility to return the firearm to the seller after 30 days, can you refuse to take it? And if you can refuse to take it back, doesn't it become property of the Sheriff's department at that point? I agree that you are not entitled to pay back any money, but I think the FFL has done something wrong or possibly illegal by keeping it all this time.
It's technically still your property.

[Stevehazard]

Your asking him to be responsible for something he can legally not have any responsibility for. You claim all sales are final... the way I see it the sale as never finalized because he was never able to take possession of the item. Before the FFL you work for gets in trouble for breaking the law I would take your rifle back and give him the money.

[Stevehazard]

I work at the FFL dealer, and yes it can revert back to my ownership. However i clearly state at any PPT that sales are final, and its up to the buyer to re-sell the firearm if they get denied.

Means nothing, what you tell a buyer doesn't supersede firearms law. He can't legal do what you are asking.

[Sharp Shooter]

I'm calling shenanigans on this one. WHERE IS THE AR??? If the sale did not go through, the seller should have got the AR back after 30 days. So did the OP get the AR back AND keep the cash???
Then OP states he would be "willing to buy the gun back form him"...but this would mean the buyer is now the legal owner, and if that is the case, then he did pass DROS and the transaction is complete - end of story.

Did you read post #23 above?

[SomeGuy75]

Your asking him to be responsible for something he can legally not have any responsibility for. You claim all sales are final... the way I see it the sale as never finalized because he was never able to take possession of the item. Before the FFL you work for gets in trouble for breaking the law I would take your rifle back and give him the money.

^^^
THIS

Just because you write in all sales are final does not make it legally binding and does not supersede state law. If the law says the weapon goes back to the seller, then it goes back to the seller, making it your rifle.
"All sales are final" only works if the sale happens, which in this case it did not.