Purpose behind sub-115-grain 9mm ammo?

[MidnightSon117]

What's the appeal of sub-115-grain 9mm ammo? I see Aguila offering a 65-grain, and I think I saw 90-grain at a gun show.

Is the appeal that it will not over penetrate due to lack of weight, but still have enough velocity to expand the JHP? The 65-grain is listed at around 1550 fps, but they did not list the energy. I'm guessing they want some effect similar to how a 5.7x28 round works. Anyone know?

[50 Freak]

Faster bullet, better chances of expansion and tissue damage.

Remember a 5.56 is only 55 grains and travels at around 2,900 fps.

[MidnightSon117]

Fair enough. What's the appeal of 135 and 147-grain bullets in 9mm?

Oh yeah, 5.7x28 is supposed to be around 2100 fps out of a 5" barrel (192, and 195 and some others). 28-grain I think.

[50 Freak]

135 is still super sonic if I remember correctly and 147 is subsonic. In case you want to put a silencer on your G.

Actually it's because some people believe in the other school of thought. Slower moving, heavier grain bullet will do more damage than a faster high velocity bullet.

Think of this example. Imagine your car as a bullet. The older American models (made of steel and heavy) and the newer Japanese models (lighter, faster and not as solid).

Now take both cars and crash them into a telephone pole at different velocites (slower for the American car, and faster for the Japanese car). The older American car (heavier, slower bullet) will probably break the pole. The newer Japanese car (faster lighter bullet) will wrap itself around the same telephone pole. Which would you prefer hitting you if you where the pole. The slower heavier bullet that will break bones and go straight through, or the faster lighter bullets that will mushroom in your body and transfer all energy upon impact.

[MidnightSon117]

I always associated that slower-bigger/faster-smaller thing with 9mm x .45 debates, it's actually interesting that even the 9mm can be divided like that. Thanks, 127gr +P+ it is for me!

[50 Freak]

If I was carrying a 9mm, I'd be using the 127 grain +P+. Pretty hot round, getting close to the 357 sig round in performance.

[MicronuT]

it might minmize the mess by a fraction?

650 grains

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO9YQ36BSb0

[caliar15]

having shot several different grain bullets in 9mm while in competition I can tell you a lighter grain will have alot less recoil for a faster follow up too.

[saki302]

Here's my general thought- if the bullet has less felt recoil to YOU, doesn't that mean it transfers less momentum to the target?

In general, the heavier bullets will outpenetrate the lighter stuff. The light loads are good for small pistols with short barrels as they'll still get enough velocity to expand. If you overspeed a light bullet (115gr. +P+ in full length barrel) it will tend to literally blow up in the target and underpenetrate somewhat.

The 127gr +P+ is probably a good compromise, and it kicks fairly stiff for a 9mm, which makes me feel all tingly inside

-Dave

[ohsmily]

it might minmize the mess by a fraction?

650 grains

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZO9YQ36BSb0

Sorry dude, those are rock chucks being shot by a high velocity varmint caliber (not sure which)

That video was discussed on another thread http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...ght=rock+chuck

[maschronic]

It seems that most of the discussion here centers around terminal effects, ballistics, and defensive use of these rounds. This is all fun and games, but ignores one incredibly important observation: 90% of all rounds are fired by people who will likely never fire a 9mm at a human or animal. I bet you that 98% of all 9mm rounds are fired at paper targets, 1% at steel targets, about 0.99% are fired at beer cans / soda bottles, and the remaining 0.01% are fired at flesh.

Here's my reasoning: I fire 147gr TCMC because it is very very accurate in my gun. I fire 115gr JHP because it is quite accurate in my gun, and considerably cheaper than 147gr TCMC. I fire cheap 115gr FMJ because they are pretty accurate (still better than I can aim), and I can shoot a lot of them without breaking the bank. I fire under-powered loads (like Winchester White Box) because they recoil less for more accuracy in rapid fire (more time to get the gun back on target and re-sight carefully, while making the time limit for the string). If 90gr or 65gr rounds had even less recoil and were affordable, I would fire those for rapid fire instead. I am interested in hitting paper targets fast and accurately, not in shooting people.

For shooting people or animals, I use totally different rounds: .45ACP +P Speer Gold Dot 200gr hollow points. And they seem very very good at that: any time I've shot at a human with those, the human dropped after my first shot.

For the mathematically challenged: remember, any assertion about members of the empty set is a tautology.

good way to sum things up!! i totally agree with you.

as for me, i shoot the ammobros 9mm 115 grain rounds. i have some winchester white box rounds too. if i ever all in the .01%, i think any ammo will do some damage on living tissue. IMO. yes....some ammo will do better than others. for the most part, any bullet will do justice as long as you hit the target.

with that said, i do use different ammo for home protection and shooting at paper targets.