Carrying loaded concealed, on private property

[Slayer]

What are the laws, from what I've read its all good. Does it make a difference if you dont own the land? If so, do you need the land owners permission to carry loaded and concealed on private property?

[glockman19]

The search button is your friend.

Basically If you own the property then it's OK but any area open th the public is inthe gray area. If you are not the owner then you must have his/her permission.

[Steve O]

I would assume that if you lease the property, that it's ok as well.

I live out in the county. It is not illegal to discharge a firearm out here. I shoot the raccoons they come out from the state park to nest under my house. The neighbors complain to the owners of the house, and call the sheriff. The sheriff has told me nether him or the landlord, can infringe upon my rights to defend my home.

So I would assume, if you have a concealed weapon on private property know one would know but you.

[Liberty1]

What are the laws, from what I've read its all good. Does it make a difference if you dont own the land? If so, do you need the land owners permission to carry loaded and concealed on private property?

You are dealing with two main CA laws; Penal Codes 12025 & 12031. Read them and the exemptions to 12025 found in 12026.

Buy the Book "How to own a gun and stay out of jail" for good case law information and more, etc...

And read the brochures over at californiaopencarry.org (is not just for open carry - there is some 12025 exemption info.)

[Slayer]

You are dealing with two main CA laws; Penal Codes 12025 & 12031. Read them and the exemptions to 12025 found in 12026.

Buy the Book "How to own a gun and stay out of jail" for good case law information and more, etc...

And read the brochures over at californiaopencarry.org (is not just for open carry - there is some 12025 exemption info.)

Thanks, the link didnt work but I googled the PCs. Didn't cover my question, however. I mean, if someone is a renter and carries loaded & concealed (outside of the domicile, yet still on private property)? Say one is mowing the lawn or working in a shed? Say there is a lot of private property with several domiciles, carrying loaded & concealed from one to the other?

[Omega13device]

Thanks, the link didnt work but I googled the PCs. Didn't cover my question, however. I mean, if someone is a renter and carries loaded & concealed (outside of the domicile, yet still on private property)? Say one is mowing the lawn or working in a shed? Say there is a lot of private property with several domiciles, carrying loaded & concealed from one to the other?

Is the lawn easily accessible by the public (no fence)? If so then you probably cannot carry loaded there. PC says you can't carry loaded in "any public place" and there is case law regarding someone with a loaded firearm in his driveway (he was found guilty of carrying loaded).

12031. (a) (1) A person is guilty of carrying a loaded firearm when
he or she carries a loaded firearm on his or her person or in a
vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an
incorporated city or in any public place or on any public street in a
prohibited area of unincorporated territory.

Concealed carry is ok "within the citizen's or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident." See PC below.

12025. (a) A person is guilty of carrying a concealed firearm when
he or she does any of the following:
(1) Carries concealed within any vehicle which is under his or her
control or direction any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.
(2) Carries concealed upon his or her person any pistol, revolver,
or other firearm capable of being concealed upon the person.
(3) Causes to be carried concealed within any vehicle in which he
or she is an occupant any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person.

...and:

12026. (a) Section 12025 shall not apply to or affect any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code,
who carries, either openly or concealed, anywhere within the citizen'
s or legal resident's place of residence, place of business, or on
private property owned or lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal
resident any pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being
concealed upon the person.
(b) No permit or license to purchase, own, possess, keep, or
carry, either openly or concealed, shall be required of any citizen
of the United States or legal resident over the age of 18 years who
resides or is temporarily within this state, and who is not within
the excepted classes prescribed by Section 12021 or 12021.1 of this
code or Section 8100 or 8103 of the Welfare and Institutions Code, to
purchase, own, possess, keep, or carry, either openly or concealed,
a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of being concealed upon
the person within the citizen's or legal resident's place of
residence, place of business, or on private property owned or
lawfully possessed by the citizen or legal resident.
(c) Nothing in this section shall be construed as affecting the
application of Section 12031.

Take note of that last bit, which basically says that even in situations where it's ok to carry concealed, you still have to follow the law regarding carrying loaded.

[Alaric]

If you rent, you have more to worry about. Say you rent an apartment; the apartment complex owners oftentimes include a ban on firearms in the rental agreement. This would make loaded/concealed carry in the common areas of the apartment complex verboten.

One of these days I hope someone gets around to challenging such asinine prohibitions, not least of all since I have such a clause in my rental agreement.

[glockman19]

If you rent, you have more to worry about. Say you rent an apartment; the apartment complex owners oftentimes include a ban on firearms in the rental agreement. This would make loaded/concealed carry in the common areas of the apartment complex verboten.

One of these days I hope someone gets around to challenging such asinine prohibitions, not least of all since I have such a clause in my rental agreement.

Two issues:

Issue #1 It is unlawful and unenforceable to ban firearms in ones residence. A rented or leased residential propoery is considered ones legal residence.

Issue #2 carrying in the "public area" of an apartment or condo complex is verboten.

#3 Nordyke should help in this area.

[Liberty1]

If you rent, you have more to worry about. Say you rent an apartment; the apartment complex owners oftentimes include a ban on firearms in the rental agreement. This would make loaded/concealed carry in the common areas of the apartment complex verboten.

One of these days I hope someone gets around to challenging such asinine prohibitions, not least of all since I have such a clause in my rental agreement.

I don't think the rental agreement would void your otherwise lawful concealed possession under 12026 on private property you otherwise possess lawfully. If you have the right to use common areas I say you can conceal. As for loaded that is not clearly defined as much as some of us would like but certainly UCC is possible (loaded mag separate) (IMO).

You might get evicted but I doubt charged following a lawful use of your lawfully possessed firearm

Keep in mind that PC 12025 prohibits ALL concealed carry as the base prohibition. No matter what your exemption, it is for you to prove your innocence EVEN if carrying unloaded in a locked case in your vehicle. Even if you're a cop too. But some exemption are more equal then others and easier to prove.

CCW should be a right like in Vermont.

[tombinghamthegreat]

I presume if your property is fully enclosed you should not have a issue carrying concealed loaded.

[Alaric]

I don't think the rental agreement would void your otherwise lawful concealed possession under 12026 on private property you otherwise possess lawfully. If you have the right to use common areas I say you can conceal. As for loaded that is not clearly defined as much as some of us would like but certainly UCC is possible (loaded mag separate) (IMO).

You might get evicted but I doubt charged following a lawful use of your lawfully possessed firearm

Keep in mind that PC 12025 prohibits ALL concealed carry as the base prohibition. No matter what your exemption, it is for you to prove your innocence EVEN if carrying unloaded in a locked case in your vehicle. Even if you're a cop too. But some exemption are more equal then others and easier to prove.

CCW should be a right like in Vermont.

So I assume that UOC is most likely to be noticed and therefore most likely to get me evicted (without getting me thrown in the slammer). I'm really tempted to do this, just to see how far the apartment complex owners would take it. Might make for a good test case on getting firearm restrictive clauses removed from rental agreements as well...