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**JPglee1** · 07-15-2006, 10:31 PM

Originally posted by mur

I've only been around a few months and have not been to ALL the local Gunshops here in the Bay Area. However there is always a common theme then this subject pops up. Service, Prices and Attitudes.

I'm not going to generalize them all, However I'd like to ask why is it that the shops still live in the 18th century?
?

My pawnshops/gun stores are the same way... One here locally tho is cool, they only markup stuff 10% over dealer cost (like in SGN ads) They will sell a CZ52 for $129.99 + 12.99 for their markup which is totally fair.

Of course then there's the $35DROS and Shipping, but such is life.

J

**COILSPRING** · 07-15-2006, 11:40 PM

They're probably old like me...

Well, they don't quote over the phone because they want you to come into their store so they can sell you something.... I understand your point, but having been involved in sales, I also understand why they are reluctant to quote over the phone. If they were to provide telephone quotes, the volume of calls would increase and sales traffic would decrease. If I had a unique item that not everyone could supply I wouldn't mind providing a telephone quotation, on the other hand, quoting on a item that is easily available to everyone in the industry is just inviting a price pissing contest in which no one (in the business) really wins. I am a extremely frugal guy, but in my old age I have learned to appreciate my local retailers. When gunshops go out of business we all lose. I live in the LA area and it seems that we have lost most of the shops I used to love, B&B, Pony Express (I used to stop there just to look @ their consignment stuff), Beach Cities Armory, Ranger Sales, B&E, B&G, ect. (What was the shop in Torrance the Yost Dad ran?)

In regards to the internet and web site comments, many of the guys are probably old and not very computer literate. I am a complete dufass when it comes to computer stuff and I can relate. I'm sure that will change in time as a new generation of gunstore owners (younger) emerge. (That is if the ownership of firearms isn't banned in the future...) I was a serious hobbiest years ago, I became so frustrated with the changes in gun laws I actually walked away from the past-time for a number of years.

Besides, shopping over the phone isn't nearly as fun! Please support your local gunshop...

**mur** · 07-16-2006, 6:39 AM

Originally posted by COILSPRING

Well, they don't quote over the phone because they want you to come into their store so they can sell you something.... I understand your point, but having been involved in sales, I also understand why they are reluctant to quote over the phone. If they were to provide telephone quotes, the volume of calls would increase and sales traffic would decrease. If I had a unique item that not everyone could supply I wouldn't mind providing a telephone quotation, on the other hand, quoting on a item that is easily available to everyone in the industry is just inviting a price pissing contest in which no one (in the business) really wins. I am a extremely frugal guy, but in my old age I have learned to appreciate my local retailers. When gunshops go out of business we all lose. I live in the LA area and it seems that we have lost most of the shops I used to love, B&B, Pony Express (I used to stop there just to look @ their consignment stuff), Beach Cities Armory, Ranger Sales, B&E, B&G, ect. (What was the shop in Torrance the Yost Dad ran?)

In regards to the internet and web site comments, many of the guys are probably old and not very computer literate. I am a complete dufass when it comes to computer stuff and I can relate. I'm sure that will change in time as a new generation of gunstore owners (younger) emerge. (That is if the ownership of firearms isn't banned in the future...) I was a serious hobbiest years ago, I became so frustrated with the changes in gun laws I actually walked away from the past-time for a number of years.

Besides, shopping over the phone isn't nearly as fun! Please support your local gunshop...

Yes, Less foot traffic probably equals less sales. Most likely you would buy other items while you were there. I guess it gets frustrating when I don't have time to drive to the shops and just want a quick answer. I was in Sales for about a year and yes we gave out different quotes. The standard quote I believe was a 35 percent markup. When we went into a clients office, there was a good chance we took less just to close the deal.

I do believe the shops should update their sites though, if need be, hire someone. Online sales are rising and it would do nothing but benifit them and us. I'd love to browse their site, see something I like, zoom on down to the store to check it out. Maybe just price out the consignment items or something.....

Either way +1 for local shop Support

**tenpercentfirearms** · 07-16-2006, 9:11 AM

The problem with a gun shop website is it is hard to keep updated. Second, what is the point in listing gun prices on your website when you are going to have to come in to buy them anyway? So a gun shop keeps the hundreds of guns and prices updated on their website just so the customer still has to come in to buy and start DROS. Is that an efficient use of time?

I have a pretty kick butt website, but I wouldn't want to put all of my guns on there because 1) it would take a lot of time 2) not many of my local guys are going to use the website, they would rather just drive in 3) if I am trying to hit out of area guys, there are distributors and others that are willing to sell it for less, so it is hard for me to compete.

Now quotes over the phone? No problem! I know my prices are good so I have no problem doing that and it actually will keep you from coming down and us spending an hour on your quote while you talk about guns for hours. Don't get me wrong, I love talking about guns. I also have a lot of online orders to ship and phone calls to make.

Really it comes down to an issue of benefit vs. time. If I was a big time firearms distributor, I would have a great gun website. I am not, so I could better spend my time doing other things. If I make a great website that takes a lot of money and takes a lot of time and money to maintain and I make one customer happy, it isn't worth it! I am not the government.

**BigMac** · 07-16-2006, 10:03 AM

I don't have one because I'm a short bus kinda guy.

Since all my sites look like a five year old put it up...

Anyone that ever started one for me flaked.. so I got sick of that.

Give me a while..

**jmlivingston** · 07-16-2006, 10:34 AM

The key for this is to have the website tied to real-time store inventory. I would guess that most of you dealers aren't hosting the website at the same location your point-of-sale system is, which makes it a bit tricker (read that as costlier) to do well. Then tie in with somebody like Davidson's for special-order items not normally stocked. But all this adds up to costs, and like Wes indicated that's a lot of cost for just getting to the local guy who wants to come in and browse anyways.

Just my $0.02.....

John

**mur** · 07-16-2006, 12:47 PM

tenpercentfirearms
Maybe not put ALL guns up, maybe just ones on Sale, Used or consignment?
I see you have a few up, nice site also.
I can see your point though. smaller guys would be a bit strained.

BigMac,
I'm sure someone here would be willing to barter.
btw I was the one who showed about an hour before you opened up
on Saturday and you let me in and we talked abit, I thank you again
I'll be back in here in a bit to pickup that 870 or something similar

Anyhow, I do agree that browsing is better than surfing. Maybe I just need to get my ****** outta this chair

**grammaton76** · 07-16-2006, 11:04 PM

Originally posted by BigMac

I don't have one because I'm a short bus kinda guy.

Since all my sites look like a five year old put it up...

Anyone that ever started one for me flaked.. so I got sick of that.

Give me a while..

Could always talk to Jeff Rambo, one of the members on here. I'm pretty sure he put together both CWS's website and Ten Percent's, and hasn't flaked on either of them.

**leelaw** · 07-16-2006, 11:16 PM

A continually updated website is costly, and a waste of time.

It's all about overhead - the more the business has, the more they're going to have to raise the price you pay.

***xenophobe*** · 07-17-2006, 1:38 AM

I never posted in that last "rate the gun store" thread, because when I was an employee there I didn't want my interference or threat of replying to someone's negative experience. I left it alone for anyone who wanted to say whatever to do so without expecting me to attack or defend any comments. I admit, I've had a lot of response that I would have liked to have posted, but since it was purely a 'rate' thread, not one asking a few questions like this one, I kept quiet. At the store, we've also gotten a number of laughs out of it too, and we don't completely disagree with everything said... Anyways... to answer your questions:

At the SJGE:

1) No price quotes over the phone. We want you to come into the shop. If you want to shop for price, stop at SJGE last. If you live out of the area, we'll make an occassional exception. If you're within reasonable driving distance, tough luck. We WILL answer if we have a particular firearm in stock. Sometimes the boss is forgetful and wrong, and I apologize, but it's kind of difficult keeping track of 800+ firearms in your mind. We don't have a problem looking on the shelf to see if something is there, or if it's still there.

Also, it gets pretty annoying to have to dig through the books, find a price and then give it over the phone a hundred times a day, especially since you can also look up 'ballpark' prices on the internet. Also, there is no single price sheet. A dealer might have to look through two or three catalogs just to find a price. Many products require a call to the distributor because "they're too low to be listed" or specific companies won't let you publish prices. Browning comes to mind. If you're going to come in, come in. If not, not much anything can do about that. And a lot of the time we get a call, we're in the middle of helping a customer, and digging around a couple of minutes to get a price for someone on the telephone while another customer is in front of you waiting is a bit rude.

2) Website: I was going to totally revamp the SJGE website on a couple different occassions. Why haven't I?

A) I'm not going to do it for free. B) SJGE doesn't do much internet or mail order business. C) The boss doesn't want to pay a couple grand for a PHP nightmare. D) The original SJGE website was created in 1998, and for that time, it was just as nice as anyone's site. Also, retro is in, and the website serves it's purpose and is functional. It explains some of the hunts that you can book, it tells you when we're open and how to get there.

The site was more modernized at one time, but it was a mish-mash of old gfx and new formatting, and it just didn't work. I optimized the original code to display better in modern browsers, and 'downgraded' it back to it's original 1998 style (I found the original site on floppy disks YAY!).

I also tried to keep new arrivals and some inventory on there, but it was so hard to keep a track of what sold and what was still there on a weekly or bi-monthly basis that too many people would just get PO'd when they came in to look at something listed that had already sold.

3) Attitude: Well, that's quite a big one. Generally everyone is nice and friendly. Mike can be a bit grumpy, and he can seem rather uncaring at times. He's REALLY hard of hearing. Without his hearing aides, he can't really hear much, and if you don't speak up, he won't understand what you're saying and will daze off. Loud people generally seem to like him better than the soft spoken people. He's got a heart of gold though, but you gotta give him the chance.

Sure, there's a lot of cursing, some fighting, and a lot of eating going on there during random parts of the days, and as a customer, I've left there pissed off a number of times... If you don't visit there often, you'll never see all the great deals that only sit around the shop for a day or two. Prices are hit and miss. Some stuff is overpriced. Some stuff is really priced to sell. Occassionally we practically give something away. Getting a good deal at SJGE usually is dependent on the time of day, bringing cold hard cash and having good negotiating skills. Sometimes you won't get much, but other times you'll get a better deal than you'd expect.

If you ask, I'll always point out the good deals on the shop. I'm also not afraid to tell you what is crap, and we won't EVER BS you on collectibles. We're honest about condition, honest if a gun has ben refinished or dicked with, and as long as it isn't too busy, we're all for some great and sometimes very heated discussion.

4) Commerce. WE PAY MORE FOR USED GUNS than ANY other gun shop in the area. Period. Sure, some people don't like hearing they can't get what they paid for a gun brand new, including taxes and fees. And some people will just be insulted. That's just the way it goes. Trade in value is top dollar. You'll also get more money from a consignment than from other places. Another local store is a great place to buy consignments, but bad for selling. We're probably better for the seller. Unlike most stores, many of our prices are not firm. Some are, some aren't. It's up to you to figure that one out. Consignment prices are firm.

5) Service: We're also very service oriented. If you buy a firearm from us and it's defective? Bring it back, we'll troubleshoot it, exchange a bad magazine or send it to the factory, usually at our cost. We'll help you put something back together again and usually never charge unless it's a big mess. We'll help you troubleshoot a problem and a lot of times we mount scopes and perform minor gunsmithing services while you wait for free.

Special orders on a deposit? No problem. 3 month lay-a-way? No extra fees. SJGE is probably the only store in the bay that will let you special order a firearm with a deposit of 25-50% and let you pay it off lay-a-way style for 3 months. I don't know how many times as a customer I put stuff on lay-a-way there.

Well, that's about all I can think of saying. I've been a customer for over 17 years and have worked there off and on for the last 6 years. My comments are a mix of both being a customer and working there. There's both the pros and cons to the store, and many either way are probably well deserved in some respects. No store can be perfect, and can't cater to everyone. It's a great store, with a wild selection of just about everything you can think of. A lot of stuff is behind the counter and if you don't ask, you won't ever know it's there.

That's the store in a nutshell. lol

**mur** · 07-17-2006, 7:24 PM