Lesson learnt: don't go out to investigate with a gun...

[tyrist]

Is that foolproof in the dark, possibly with other visual impairments, with a groggy, startled, and probably angry homeowner scared for himself and his family?

When dealing with human beings there is no such thing as fool proof. But if you shoot a Officer in full uniform your done. If you shot one in plain clothes you might have some type of defense. Mistakes happen both ways I am just speaking from a legal standpoint.

If somebody points a gun at me I will shoot them without saying a word because you don't have time. If they are not pointing it at anything I will tell them to face away from me the level of their compliance will determine the outcome. I know law abiding person upon hearing the words "police turn around and face the wall" would comply quickly. I also know if it were me holding a suspect at gun point I am going to ditch the gun as soon as the police arrive to make sure no accidents happen because it does'nt matter who was right or wrong if your dead or permanetly injured.

[The Director]

^+1 especially when they are in your back yard!!!!

I would never shoot first and ask questions later - that's not right at all, but when someone is on your property in the middle of the night they should make extra effort to communicate that fact.

Honestly I think I am seeing it from a narrower perspective than most; my back yard is very inaccessible due to the houses next door, it a big secluded area. if you are in there it's not by accident and you're probably up to no good.

[The Director]

On another note, Tyrist, I admire you. Your posts have been great and have given me greater respect for LE in general.

Still, when you are in my back yard in the middle of the night, and you call out "POLICE - turn around and face the wall" - why should I comply (except to avoid being shot?)

I have no criminal record and have never committed a crime, yet I would really be questioning that command - mainly because you are in my domain.

[tyrist]

On another note, Tyrist, I admire you. Your posts have been great and have given me greater respect for LE in general.

Still, when you are in my back yard in the middle of the night, and you call out "POLICE - turn around and face the wall" - why should I comply (except to avoid being shot?)

I have no criminal record and have never committed a crime, yet I would really be questioning that command - mainly because you are in my domain.

You should comply because it de-escalates the situation and your legally required to do so. I wish I could make a great many of you understand the amount of mental stress your going through when you just chased some knucklehead southbound through the houses...probably got clothesed lined along the way...suffering from oxygen deprevation....banged up all to hell....trying to remember where you are and continually broadcast information so help knows where your at. You have all that on your plate...I think the least I could ask is for the good guys to help me out and go with the program.

[The Director]

I understand completely. Not trying to bust your balls here at all - I don't want your job!

Still, explain to me how I am legally required to follow your commands in and on my property. I have a reasonable expectation of privacy in my back yard. Serious question - I need education on this, am not trolling.

[tyrist]

I understand completely. Not trying to bust your balls here at all - I don't want your job!

Still, explain to me how I am legally required to follow your commands in and on my property. I have a reasonable expectation of privacy in my back yard. Serious question - I need education on this, am not trolling.

Because your backyard becomes a crime scene. Once it's a crime scene we have authority...if we are chasing a felony suspect who might be armed...we jump the wall and there is an armed man standing with a gun...does'nt take much to think you might be the suspect. Also clothing descriptions are'nt always good since I have had more than a few suspects change clothes on me.

[The Director]

Got it. Thanks for the info!

[yellowfin]

I know law abiding person upon hearing the words "police turn around and face the wall" would comply quickly

Which any human being can utter and be believed, getting the compliant killed. It's like a turkey call--I can sound just like a hen turkey and if the gobbler believes me, he's history. That's acceptable?

I also know if it were me holding a suspect at gun point I am going to ditch the gun as soon as the police arrive to make sure no accidents happen because it does'nt matter who was right or wrong if your dead or permanetly injured.

True, but I see that as no guarantee that the person who was dangerous enough for me to hold a gun to is going to be any less dangerous, not to mention highly alarming that I face just as much danger from people who are supposed to be on my side. I guess it's advisable to tell them what you're wearing and what you look like while on the phone, right?

[tyrist]

Which any human being can utter and be believed, getting the compliant killed. It's like a turkey call--I can sound just like a hen turkey and if the gobbler believes me, he's history. That's acceptable?

True, but I see that as no guarantee that the person who was dangerous enough for me to hold a gun to is going to be any less dangerous, not to mention highly alarming that I face just as much danger from people who are supposed to be on my side. I guess it's advisable to tell them what you're wearing and what you look like while on the phone, right?

Highly advisable...give as much info as you can but once again sometimes information is lost along the pipeline. How do we know that the crimminal is not holding the home owner at gun point? Sometimes it is readily apparent sometimes it is not. If it is so dark you cannot see the uniform just remember....crimminal don't tend to use tac lights/flash lights.

[Decoligny]

First thing that happens if I hear a commotion outside my house at night is I hit my "LIGHT IT UP" switch. I have spotlights in the front, sides and back of my house. Throw one switch in the hallway and it's like noon outside. This has the advantage of also making it difficult for a perp to see into my windows. I can see out my blinds without revealing my location. No need to step outside as I can see the entire perimeter as I ensure that the house is clear, all while remaining completely hidden from sight.

This also let's any Police in the area know that something is going on over that way, especially if they are already chasing after a perp.

[uracan]

good discussion thread, kudos to both "sides"

[M. Sage]

I know law abiding person upon hearing the words "police turn around and face the wall" would comply quickly.

Yeah, but anybody can yell that. Heck, if I ever have someone break into my house some night, I might yell that in hopes that I won't have to shoot them.

[tyrist]

Yeah, but anybody can yell that. Heck, if I ever have someone break into my house some night, I might yell that in hopes that I won't have to shoot them.

Hey it's what we use tactically when dealing with Fourth of July and New Years eve shooters. We get them to face away so we don't have to dump them.

In a certain location within the city my department covers it's like Iraq with anti aircraft fire...it's rediculous....12am hits and the area explodes with gun fire. The normal patrol guys park under freeway bridges.