When did 16" AR carbines become popular?

[Jimmybacon43]

I'm seeing a lot of good answers in here, thanks to everybody who responded.

[bohoki]

when i first saw an ar-pistol i think it was like 1993 and am almost postitive it was an olympic arms and im pretty sure it used very propriatary inner workings


i think the second one i saw was the carbon 15 but that was during the ban and they were basically made because of the 50 oz pistol rule they were not allowed handguards

at the time i thought what the heck good are them things

i got one now and i'm still asking what good is this thing

ar-15s are fairly flat shooting but its hard to believe they lasted all the way to 1986 before they put elevation on the rear sight (sure sp1 had near and far settings but that doesn't exactly dial anybody in)
(but i was just sitting around watching transformers in my jammies)

[russ69]

...ar-15s are fairly flat shooting but its hard to believe they lasted all the way to 1986 before they put elevation on the rear sight (sure sp1 had near and far settings but that doesn't exactly dial anybody in) (but i was just sitting around watching transformers in my jammies)

The rear sight has windage and the front sight has elevation.

[smle-man]

My buddy bought his AR15 in 1974. Modern military pattern semi rifles were pretty rare on the ranges back then. I had a Devine TX M1A and we both would get comments about shooting 'machine guns' on the range. Another friend bought his AR about a year later. They weren't rare and were stock items in the local shops. My friend never cleaned his AR to see how long it would go. When I left for the Army in 1977 it was still going strong. It was fed a steady diet of LC ball.

The rare gun of that time was the Valmet 62S imported by Interarms. Now that caused a stir! Of course there was no ammunition for the Valmet to be had anywhere where I shopped in that era so those who owned one in Pittsburgh had a conversation piece. The only ammo I saw in 7.6x39 at that time was stuff brought back by GIs from VN as souvenirs and sold for a buck a round which equates to $4.50 a round today.

[sigstroker]

I'm curious about when and why the 16" AR15 carbine with a telescoping stock became more popular than the longer barreled fixed stock versions.

Was it when the Army switched to the M4?

Or was it when the movie black hawk down came out?

I doubt Black Hawk Down had much to do with it. The Rangers almost all had full sized 20" rifles. I would say it was after 9/11 and our military took M4's into Iraqistan.

I'm assuming that 16" carbines became popular to emulate the military and "special forces"

Don't get me wrong I appreciate the 16" carbines as great rifles and the ultimate in home defense firepower, just curious as to how they came about.

BONUS QUESTION: When did AR15's become popular? I know now that they are basically ubiquitous, everybody has at least one, most popular rifle in America.

For that you can thank William Jefferson Clinton and the '94 Crime Bill. You won't get somebody to want something any better than telling them they can't have it.

Was it always this way? When civilian AR15's were first released were they as widely appreciated as they are now? Or was it something that only "weirdos" and "gun nuts" had?

No. At least not in AZ where I grew up. Part of it was that shooters in AZ considered .223 a "mouse" caliber. The other reason is you really can't hunt anything with an AR, so people had bolt guns for centerfire rifles. The kind of plinking most people do with AR's now was done with .22's. AR's and M-16's used to languish on my local gun shops shelves. Bulk ammo wasn't really available in .223 so nobody wanted to spend big bucks on ammo. Only reloaders generally had AR's (or weirdos and nuts) or other .223 military pattern rifles. AK's were a different story because ammo was cheap in bulk. I saw a guy walk into my local shop and buy a pallet of 7.62x39 because they were on sale. Backed his pickup to the loading dock and 22 cases of ammo went into the back. He said he and his sons would plink off 2 cases every time they went out, so that was less than a year's worth for them.

[k1dude]

No. At least not in AZ where I grew up. Part of it was that shooters in AZ considered .223 a "mouse" caliber. The other reason is you really can't hunt anything with an AR, so people had bolt guns for centerfire rifles. The kind of plinking most people do with AR's now was done with .22's. AR's and M-16's used to languish on my local gun shops shelves. Bulk ammo wasn't really available in .223 so nobody wanted to spend big bucks on ammo. Only reloaders generally had AR's (or weirdos and nuts) or other .223 military pattern rifles. AK's were a different story because ammo was cheap in bulk. I saw a guy walk into my local shop and buy a pallet of 7.62x39 because they were on sale. Backed his pickup to the loading dock and 22 cases of ammo went into the back. He said he and his sons would plink off 2 cases every time they went out, so that was less than a year's worth for them.

I was also a kid in Arizona. What I remember was lots of people already had surplus M1 Carbines and Mini 14's, so an AR was sort of redundant. People didn't have a lot of extra money to throw around, so if you already had an M1 or Mini 14, you weren't going to blow more money on something you basically already had. They were basically used as ranch rifles for varmint control.

There was also some stigma against AR's. A good percentage of people thought even back then that all guns should be single action revolvers or bolt actions only (and have wood on them). I remember there was even some resistance to lever actions by that crowd. I suspect those people were the start of the progressive movement. I doubt any of those people or their offspring own guns anymore.

IIRC, ammo prices weren't too bad on bulk .223. I remember thinking it was fairly cheap compared to most other calibers. But that was before the influx of cheap AK's and comm bloc ammo. Surplus .30 Carbine ammo was cheap too.

[stix213]

The AWB in 1994 was the big turning point. The government told the people what they can't have, and naturally they wanted it. Then it ended and the flood gates opened.

[smith and wesson]

I doubt Black Hawk Down had much to do with it. The Rangers almost all had full sized 20" rifles. I would say it was after 9/11 and our military took M4's into Iraqistan.



For that you can thank William Jefferson Clinton and the '94 Crime Bill. You won't get somebody to want something any better than telling them they can't have it.



No. At least not in AZ where I grew up. Part of it was that shooters in AZ considered .223 a "mouse" caliber. The other reason is you really can't hunt anything with an AR, so people had bolt guns for centerfire rifles. The kind of plinking most people do with AR's now was done with .22's. AR's and M-16's used to languish on my local gun shops shelves. Bulk ammo wasn't really available in .223 so nobody wanted to spend big bucks on ammo. Only reloaders generally had AR's (or weirdos and nuts) or other .223 military pattern rifles. AK's were a different story because ammo was cheap in bulk. I saw a guy walk into my local shop and buy a pallet of 7.62x39 because they were on sale. Backed his pickup to the loading dock and 22 cases of ammo went into the back. He said he and his sons would plink off 2 cases every time they went out, so that was less than a year's worth for them.

I would have loved to see that. Just buy a whole pallet of ammo.

[I Swan]

I doubt Black Hawk Down had much to do with it. The Rangers almost all had full sized 20" rifles. I would say it was after 9/11 and our military took M4's into Iraqistan.



For that you can thank William Jefferson Clinton and the '94 Crime Bill. You won't get somebody to want something any better than telling them they can't have it.



No. At least not in AZ where I grew up. Part of it was that shooters in AZ considered .223 a "mouse" caliber. The other reason is you really can't hunt anything with an AR, so people had bolt guns for centerfire rifles. The kind of plinking most people do with AR's now was done with .22's. AR's and M-16's used to languish on my local gun shops shelves. Bulk ammo wasn't really available in .223 so nobody wanted to spend big bucks on ammo. Only reloaders generally had AR's (or weirdos and nuts) or other .223 military pattern rifles. AK's were a different story because ammo was cheap in bulk. I saw a guy walk into my local shop and buy a pallet of 7.62x39 because they were on sale. Backed his pickup to the loading dock and 22 cases of ammo went into the back. He said he and his sons would plink off 2 cases every time they went out, so that was less than a year's worth for them.

Not being able to really hunt anything with an AR is news to me. I remember when that Zumbo fellow said the same thing. I do realize it is not a traditional choice.

I think a part of the market for AR's then and now is former and current service members that want a rifle similar to what they used in the the military. I think people also don't realize how expensive some of the military pattern rfles such as Valmets and SIG's could be.

[elsolo]

You can shoot varmints with a .223 but lots of Americans think of deer when rifle hunting is mentioned.

[patriot_man]

Probably when the M4 was adopted in '94.

That's why the M4 barrel profile is so prevalent as well. Everyone wants what the military is using.

[cmichini]

When? - not sure

Why? - To provide riflemen a visual cue that the operators have arrived on scene.