Full auto ar 15 kit for sale

[ziconceo]

Can you guys help me understand why this is up? I was looking around on gun broker for fun and I see this.

I'm 99.9999999999% sure its a trap but could it be legal for full auto makers to use?

They also say theirs no paperwork?

I thought these kits went for like $20,000

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=510538377

[farmerjoe]

[Cali-Shooter]

BATFE STING OPERATION IN PROGRESS. DO NOT INTERRUPT.

[Quiet]

[RamonSJC]

Just ordered two!

[RickD427]

This is a good example to show just how easily you can do a series of completely legal actions that will have the cumulative effect of putting you in prison for a number of years.

It is legal for you to purchase the full auto fire control components shown in the Gunbroker listing. It's also legal for the vendor to sell them to you as parts.

But, you need to keep in mind the federal definition of a machine gun. That definition includes "constructive possession" language such that if you possess a lower receiver and the parts needed to make that receiver into a full auto, then you're in possession of a machine gun, even though there has been no assembly of the parts. (Refer to 26 USC 5845(b))

In other words:

1) Go out an buy a completely legal AR-15.

2) Go out and buy the completely legal parts kit described by the OP.

3) Now you're a felon.

[ziconceo]

This is a good example to show just how easily you can do a series of completely legal actions that will have the cumulative effect of putting you in prison for a number of years.

It is legal for you to purchase the full auto fire control components shown in the Gunbroker listing. It's also legal for the vendor to sell them to you as parts.

But, you need to keep in mind the federal definition of a machine gun. That definition includes "constructive possession" language such that if you possess a lower receiver and the parts needed to make that receiver into a full auto, then you're in possession of a machine gun, even though there has been no assembly of the parts. (Refer to 26 USC 5845(b))

In other words:

1) Go out an buy a completely legal AR-15.

2) Go out and buy the completely legal parts kit described by the OP.

3) Now you're a felon.

No way that's crazy!

So you're saying....

If someone were to own an ar upper and lower parts kit, and an untouched 80% lower they could legally own this? As long as they didn't own any actual working ar 15?

Or, how about this, say my brother an I live in the same house, my brother is too young to own an ar, he buys the parts. He can legally own them since HE doesn't have an ar?

[RickD427]

No way that's crazy!

So you're saying....

If someone were to own an ar upper and lower parts kit, and an untouched 80% lower they could legally own this? As long as they didn't own any actual working ar 15?

Or, how about this, say my brother an I live in the same house, my brother is too young to own an ar, he buys the parts. He can legally own them since HE doesn't have an ar?

You're correct. It is kinda crazy. It's very easy to get into serious trouble by legally purchasing the wrong combination of stuff.

I'm not so sure that you would be legal with the parts and an 80% lower. IANAL, please read the definition of a "machine gun" below. Make your own decision if the 80% lower and the parts meet the "could be assembled" criteria.

Here's the federal definition of a "Machine Gun" from 26 USC 5845(b):

The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

[ziconceo]

You're correct. It is kinda crazy. It's very easy to get into serious trouble by legally purchasing the wrong combination of stuff.

I'm not so sure that you would be legal with the parts and an 80% lower. IANAL, please read the definition of a "machine gun" below. Make your own decision if the 80% lower and the parts meet the "could be assembled" criteria.

Here's the federal definition of a "Machine Gun" from 26 USC 5845(b):

The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person.

Ah, okay. But it doesn't seem to include other people you know that don't own an ar 15. Very strange

[Cody]

No way that's crazy!

So you're saying....

If someone were to own an ar upper and lower parts kit, and an untouched 80% lower they could legally own this? As long as they didn't own any actual working ar 15?

Or, how about this, say my brother an I live in the same house, my brother is too young to own an ar, he buys the parts. He can legally own them since HE doesn't have an ar?

I'm not sure I'd want to push those boundaries. There are so many gray areas and who knows how they will interpret the law. Even if you win and don't get convicted it could cost you a ton in lawyer fees.

[wireless]

This is a good example to show just how easily you can do a series of completely legal actions that will have the cumulative effect of putting you in prison for a number of years.

It is legal for you to purchase the full auto fire control components shown in the Gunbroker listing. It's also legal for the vendor to sell them to you as parts.

But, you need to keep in mind the federal definition of a machine gun. That definition includes "constructive possession" language such that if you possess a lower receiver and the parts needed to make that receiver into a full auto, then you're in possession of a machine gun, even though there has been no assembly of the parts. (Refer to 26 USC 5845(b))

In other words:

1) Go out an buy a completely legal AR-15.

2) Go out and buy the completely legal parts kit described by the OP.

3) Now you're a felon.

Don't forget to buy an m16 autosear jig. They float around the internet for $30-$60. Those parts would be useless without a hole for the autosear (although still illegal, I know).

These kits also float around internet forums quite a bit in the for sale section. Brownelles might still sell them too. I know they did in the past. Autosear jig can be found on google.

Turning an ar15 into a full auto select fire rifle can be done in 15-20 minutes, probably less. Many companies sell AR lowers with the rear pocket drilled out to "reduce the weight" by 3-4 ounces. No need to buy a lower and drill out a pocket for the auto sear to fit.

[ziconceo]

For the record, I'm not interested in owning a kit, full auto is nothing more than an expensive add-on imo. It's just interesting that these are floating around

[farmerjoe]

For the record, I'm not interested in owning a kit, full auto is nothing more than an expensive add-on imo. It's just interesting that these are floating around

Used to be a guy at the gun shows (Pre-Roberti-Roos) with a booth selling these, kits for M1/M2 and M14 conversions. Just shake your head and walk away.

[SLO1911Fan]

Here's the federal definition of a "Machine Gun" from 26 USC 5845(b):

The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun.

Technically speaking isn't the auto sear in and of itself a machine gun? Here's the part that I think you would run into trouble with.

any part designed and intended solely and exclusively

[wireless]

A m16 autosear alone cannot make an AR15 fully automatic. You still need all the other components (hammer, disconnect, etc. ) Most importantly you have to drill a hole in the receiver to put in the autosear.

A Registered Drop In Auto Sear is one piece that you drop into an AR-15 receiver and it can fire full auto. It does require m16 FCG, but the gun does not need to be altered in any sort of way to fire full auto.


Here is a video showing you how full auto / 3rd burst / semi auto works in a m16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxwPEL8winI

This is a video of a Registered Drop In Auto Sear

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdR7rEuLrvE