200 yards shooting questions

[bigbearbear]

Went to Metcalf's 200 yards shooting range with my colleague, 1st time for both of us shooting at that range. I'm using the following:

- Rifle: Stock Windham Weaponry MPC-CA, 16" barrel with 1:9 twist rate.
- Ammo: Freedom Munitions .223rem 55gr reloads
- Scope: Mueller SpeedShot 1-4x red dot (4 MOA dot). Zeroed at 50 yards.

Got a few questions and hope more experienced shooters can answer them:
Question 1.
According to the ballistic chart I saw online, for a .223rem 55gr bullet on a rifle zeroed for 50 yards, it should be shooting 1.5" low at 200 yards. However, it was really windy today and to my surprise, my point of impact ended up being 7 inches high and 7 inches to the right (wind was blowing to the right today). It seems the 55gr bullet doesn't do well in strong winds (it was about 7pm and wind was strong, I guess the difference in daytime hot temperature and night time coolness created strong wind current). If I switch to a 69gr (or heavier) bullet, how much difference will I see?

Question 2
Do you guys use something attached to the target board to help you read the wind? Due to the way the Metcalf 200 yards range is setup, the bench where we shoot is totally calm with no wind, but the target board area is really gusty. I'll like to check if anyone has any recommendation for something that I can attach to the board which will show me how strong the wind is and which direction is it blowing.

Question 3
The ammo I used are reloads from Freedom Munitions as I've mentioned above, in my relatively inexperienced hands and using a 4 MOA red dot, the group was around 8 inches at 200 yards. Is this considered good, ok or bad?

Thanks.

[davidb]

I doubt you'd see much difference at 200 yards, also the 69 might not stabilize as well as the 55 in your 1/9 so could turn out even worse

8" sounds about right with a 4 moa dot

[NapalmCheese]

You can post flags on the way out and tie one to your target board. I use flagging tape.

[ocabj]

I tend to rely on mirage for direction and speed, while a flag gives me more insight into direction/value. I used to put a strip of surveyors tape on my board when practicing, just for a reference. But that didn't really give to much insight.

A heavier bullet will definitely translate to less wind drift. Generally, 10mph full value wind should only move you over 2MOA at 200 for a heavy 22cal (e.g. 77).

[Fjold]

69 grain bullets will work fine in a 1:9" twist barrel.

The first thing that I would check is that you have an actual 50 yard zero. Too many times the center of the group is not on the actual zero range.

[fritztkatt]

Make sure your zero is actually spot on.

200 yards with an AR is not difficult. Get your no-wind zero, or zero with wind and adjust back based on the wind call.

Get a log book, use it. Use the s*** out of it! If you want to be accurate, log every round you fire for poa/poi, dope, wind, temp, sun, all that good stuff. I wouldn't log short range rapid fire ("running the gun"), just shot count to keep track of barrel life.

Look up how snipers do their shooting, and mimic it as best you can, regardless the gun/ammo. You will see results, even using an AR and bulk ammo.

Of course practice your basic marksmanship or you're just wasting time.

[jrpowell3]

Thank you for making me paranoid enough to check my rear sight on my AR to make sure it's on my BZO...

[pterrell]

Unless you're shooting in a hurricane (Wilcox Range) you shouldn't be making wind calls at 200 yards. Two things are likely going on here, IMO. One, your zero is not correct. If you are shooting consistently high right, your rifle and ammo are fine but your zero is off. Two, you may be anticipating the shot or jerking the trigger. I don't think you're staring at the target rather than the sights otherwise you would be shooting around center mass.

[RandyD]

I use published data to insure that I am on target. I don't use it to precisely determine where my bullet strikes. It is a rare occassion when published data precisely matches your actual results. This is because of the environmental factors such as air temperature and pressure are never constant. Wind is even more unpredictable, and wind also affects the vertical disbursion. As a general rule, the heavier your bullet, the less it is affected by wind.

Attaching surveyor's tape to your target will give you wind direction and some idea of its speed, but the wind near the shooting position affects the bullet more than the wind at the target. Always remember, wind direction and speed are never constant in time or place. I have been in matches where the wind shifts 180 degrees, and if you ever watch benchrest rest shooters, they place wind indicators at multiple places along their bullet's path, and their wind
indicators never show the same conditions along the bullet's path.

Your 4 MOA dot, covers approximately 8 inches of the target at 200 yards, so getting an 8 inch spread is expected, which makes that a good group. You seem interested in accuracy, so you may want to try a scope if you are interested in shrinking your groups.

[jrpowell3]

Unless you're shooting in a hurricane (Wilcox Range) you shouldn't be making wind calls at 200 yards. Two things are likely going on here, IMO. One, your zero is not correct. If you are shooting consistently high right, your rifle and ammo are fine but your zero is off. Two, you may be anticipating the shot or jerking the trigger. I don't think you're staring at the target rather than the sights otherwise you would be shooting around center mass.

Hahaha, I hated shooting on Wilcox. During one string of 500yd fire, the range flags in front of you are going in alternating opposite directions......and they change during the string of fire.

[jrpowell3]

Attaching surveyor's tape to your target will give you wind direction and some idea of its speed, but the wind near the shooting position affects the bullet more than the wind at the target.

Could you please explain this? In the Marines, they always told us to go off the pit flag to make our dope.

[fritztkatt]

I thankfully got first relay this week. Not a single wind call was made! Hehehe... 239/250 and 99/100 on table 2 (I flinched). I did have a stupid acog that wanted to walk up in elevation, my hold at 500 was using the 300 post...

I usually dope or hold for an average. It takes some feel. If I see 10mph at 500 line, 15mph at 300, 25 at 200 and pits, I'll hold for like 22mph. You have to weight the wind more for the target end than muzzle end, because the bullet is going a lot slower.

Remember though, the A target is 12", so that's 6 moa. And the shot spotters are 2". That's way too loose of a tolerance for actual precision shooting. Practical minute-of-haji, yes... I'm told that the m16/m4 with m855 or m193 is only expected to be 5moa mechanical accuracy. Some rifles and lots of ammo may be better/worse. The lot I had this week shot pretty well from my newer m16. I'd guess 3-4 moa. Lake city brass, reloaded 4-5 times, 2009 vintage.

My psa m4gery with freedom .223 55gr shoots about 3moa I'd guess. I've only used a red dot and irons. I say OP should expect the same. His optic is definitely limiting his medium-long range accuracy though.

[jrpowell3]

I thankfully got first relay this week. Not a single wind call was made! Hehehe... 239/250 and 99/100 on table 2 (I flinched). I did have a stupid acog that wanted to walk up in elevation, my hold at 500 was using the 300 post...

I usually dope or hold for an average. It takes some feel. If I see 10mph at 500 line, 15mph at 300, 25 at 200 and pits, I'll hold for like 22mph. You have to weight the wind more for the target end than muzzle end, because the bullet is going a lot slower.

Remember though, the A target is 12", so that's 6 moa. And the shot spotters are 2". That's way too loose of a tolerance for actual precision shooting. Practical minute-of-haji, yes... I'm told that the m16/m4 with m855 or m193 is only expected to be 5moa mechanical accuracy. Some rifles and lots of ammo may be better/worse. The lot I had this week shot pretty well from my newer m16. I'd guess 3-4 moa. Lake city brass, reloaded 4-5 times, 2009 vintage.

My psa m4gery with freedom .223 55gr shoots about 3moa I'd guess. I've only used a red dot and irons. I say OP should expect the same. His optic is definitely limiting his medium-long range accuracy though.

The only problem with first string is that it's friggin' cold and you can barely feel the trigger.

[fritztkatt]

My issue was the stupid RCO wanted to walk up and it was dark on first shots... and my pits were slow as hell.

2 guys next to me hit 243 and 242. We did pretty good. We coached a pizza box/unq to 221.

[Legasat]

A 4MOA red dot at 200 yds leaves a lot of room for slop.