Oak Tree Gun Club

[MattH2h]

Can someone explain why so many calgunners refuse to go to the place? I have been the quite a few times, as it is only 10 minutes from my house, and have never had an issue there. But I do see a lot of people on here say they will never go there again after what they did. So can someone inform me on what they did please? Thanks

[Tovarish]

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=896247

[mossy]

They tried to be the exclusive seller of the POS smart gun. When called out they tried to erase all evidence of their involvement but the pictures were posted.


Any FFL that helps push smart guns is helping push gun control. They deserve all the backlash they get. I would not be sad if these collaborators closed.

[[Variable]]

[Tommy C]

They sold us out & deserve to go out of business.

[Tommy C]

Smart gun can't compensate for poor trigger discipline.....

[Smokestack]

Besides the Smart gun BS, they are over priced and have run down equipment. It's just easier and cheaper to go elsewhere.

[Gene1986]

I consider it one of the best ranges. And they don't ***** about rapid fire.

[bodger]

They tried to be the exclusive seller of the POS smart gun. When called out they tried to erase all evidence of their involvement but the pictures were posted.


Any FFL that helps push smart guns is helping push gun control. They deserve all the backlash they get. I would not be sad if these collaborators closed.

Weren't they pushing the guns and trying to be the exclusive seller in hopes that when whatever smart gun legislation passed, they would be in the driver's seat?

Forget 'em. I stopped going there after the whole debacle broke.

[stix213]

They tried to sell out all gun owners everywhere in the country because they thought it would make them money.

[cudakidd]

Old news. Go there and enjoy, after all Bill Ruger sold out Gun Owners years ago. But Ruger gets a pass with the same People that flog OTGC years later.

They sponsor youth shooting Programs, have hunter safety classes, provide a great place for new shooters to go.

Some people will never let it go...

[WyattandDoc]

Can someone explain why so many calgunners refuse to go to the place? I have been the quite a few times, as it is only 10 minutes from my house, and have never had an issue there. But I do see a lot of people on here say they will never go there again after what they did. So can someone inform me on what they did please? Thanks

Because A Place To Shoot and Angeles have half the crowds, far less idiots with no gun safety and are better all around ranges.

[epilepticninja]

[Kestryll]

Weren't they pushing the guns and trying to be the exclusive seller in hopes that when whatever smart gun legislation passed, they would be in the driver's seat?

Actually no they were not.

Oaktree Gun Club (OTGC) installed one of the Armatix Range Safety Systems which is the same pistol but tied to sensors mounted down range. The idea being that unless the pistol is pointed down range it won't fire thus preventing suicides and accidental/negligent discharges at the table.

During the whole mess I went up to OTGC and saw the system installed, sensors, pistol and everything. Frankly while the intent might have been good the system was rather dumb. The down range sensors had to be in the line of sight and line of fire and could not be behind hard cover or even shielded by lexan. Murphy's Law say that shot number 4 would likely take out a sensor which would cost thousands to replace.

Yes, OTGC rented them a trailer to use as office space and a mailing address with the intent to act as a 'showroom' for the Range Safety System. I was told when speaking with OTGC's Manager and the two sisters who own the gun store there that there was no discussion of using the office space for Armatix's FFL address or of selling the 'smart gun'.

The most damning things were pictures taken and posted by the Armatix shill Belinda and comments by the father who owned OTGC before handing it off to his daughters.

The worst picture is of an Armatix iP1 with an OTGC price tag and it is pretty damning indeed. When I asked about it I was told it was never in their inventory and even offered the opportunity to go through their bound books to verify that it was not. I did not go through their books as I did not have the several days free it would have taken to do so but the offer lends an air of truth to me. I was told that the OTGC label was printed by one of the employees at the direct request of Belinda without knowledge or permission of the management. She basically went to one of them and asked for a label for photos and the employee didn't think to ask anyone up the food chain.
Yeah, it does sound a bit weak but it also sounds like something that can and does happen in other businesses.

The comments by the father in various articles is a whole different thing, there's no real way to say those were a mistake or someone else's fault. At best you could claim they were taken out of context but damned if I can think of a good context for them. I have also heard rumors, second hand accounts essentially of an unnamed employee saying that he/she did hear the father talking to Belinda about the 'smart gun'.

I tracked all of the information on this, talked to various members who saw or heard information and even went to OTGC several times to see for myself and to speak with the owners and managers. All of this has lead me to my own conclusion that OTGC was not trying to sell or market the Armatix 'smart gun' as a company. I do suspect, and all it is is my own suspicion and deduction based on what I saw and heard so don't take it as anymore than that, that one person was trying to look beyond the Range Safety System and work some kind of arrangement in private without others being aware of it. If I'm right I'd guess no one is aware of it, or at least able to prove it, to this day.

In my opinion the biggest error on OTGC's part was being silent during the whole mess, they really should have publicly addressed the issue and what had occurred right then. I even said as much on several occasions but they never did. I know because I heard it in response to my advice to address the issue that at least one person was saying they had spoken to some PR people and had been told not to say anything and it would blow over. To which I said no it won't you're underestimating the shooting community.
As I understand it a few months in to things there was also advice by legal counsel not to issue a public statement at that time.

In the end no I do not think OTGC was trying to sell out gun owners nor to sell the so called 'smart gun'.
I do think there might have been some back room shenanigans or even just plain bad thinking on an individual's part that set things in motion and brought all the heat down on OTGC.

After looking in to it, talking to the parties involved and doing a bunch or research I'll still go up there and shoot sometimes and even use the range to teach new shooters because it's not a bad range and it's probably the closest outdoor range to the city.

[bodger]

Good to know. Thanks for clearing that up. All I remembered was the plethora of threads and posts from back when the topic was hot.