Getting fence sitters on our side?

[Svetlana]

Last night I was talking to an old friend on FB, she was saying how she was learning martial arts and her Sensei was teaching her how to disarm a man with a gun.

Ok, when I was little, I had a bad experience with a man with a rifle. I don't want to get into it, but I shared my story on how a girl and martial arts will not disarm a man with a rifle. It's reality.

I realized so many of "our friends" are fence sitters and I really didn't know how or what to say to get them on our side. I don't talk about my weapons to anyone other than my GS.

What do you guys do?

Drop hints? lost cause? share stories? blind fold them, bring them to a gun range and yell "surprise"

I think the problem that we have so much ignorance and problems with guns is that its so taboo to talk about them, it's like talking about your sex toy or something.

I had to learn so much, about 3 months of studying guides and youtube videos, visiting 4 LGS before I felt comfortable getting one. And then even more to learn how to use it. Now I look back I can't imagine the ignorance our "defenseless" counterparts have only seeing guns ridiculously portrayed in the media/news.

I feel like if we can educate them about firearms, what they really are, they might help politically and socially, maybe even vote out some ridiculously dangerous "safe" gun laws. Is this possible?

[fritztkatt]

My old lady is becoming more accepting of the hobby. She likes me enough to have open ears, so I will tell her about things as they come up. Like watching TV especially. She has a fear of guns because of her lack of knowledge, and that her parents weren't necessarily antis, they just didn't want their children around them. It's like the respect turned into a fear, because of their power. I'm working on getting her to enjoy shooting, she's learned safe use, and is comfortable with HD use, I even had her busting clays with a 20ga before, but overall she hates the experience of being at most ranges (uncontrolled shots, people, indoor is dimly lit and much louder...)

Start asking your fence sitter about what they know. Educate them about how things really work. Explain what other countries view as gun-taboo (like I hear it's a normal and neighborly thing to use supressors in EU, for hunting and targets)... offer to take them shooting (but a crowded indoor range is NOT the place to go).

Learning how to disarm someone is a good thing. It's not something I'd be too concerned about, but I doubt it would hurt to know!

I think that a NRA style handling/use/hunting class should be high school curriculum. Even for people that want nothing to do with guns, it wouldn't hurt them to know how to be safe with them... but they should also teach how to do taxes, pay bills, make auto-shop 1 part of drivers ed, and a laundry list of other stuff I wish I had gotten taught in school. I didn't need the auto shop or gun class, but taxes would've been nice!

[shooting4life]

Take them to the range.

Here is a couple of my wife's relatives, one married in. This is the first time either of them have shot a gun. I also took both of thier husband at the same time as well.
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Everyone should be taking a new person to the range every few months.

[Garv]

Offer to take them shooting.
I've gotten about 10 noobs to go in the last 2 years.
All had fun.
5 now own guns.
(Proper training, etc.)

[Ant45]

Took a co worker shooting and now he's thinking of getting a pistol.

A few others want to go but haven't yet (I'm not pushy) but their attitudes has changed drastically from 'guns are bad' to 'oh, I didn't realize there were so many responsible gun people like you'.

Even if I can;t get all that talk to me about shooting to become shooters I have persuaded many to become ok with it even if it's not for them. A non shooter who's on our side is still a vote for our side.

[jeremiah12]

Do not be so sure that a proficient martial artist cannot disarm someone with a firearm, be it a rifle or handgun.

Like everything else, it depends on the situation. The 21' rule you may have heard about comes from a person with a knife running at you at top speed on average can get to you faster than you will be able to unholster and fire your weapon if that person is within 21'.

I was very proficient in martial arts before my stroke 5 years ago. We practiced this a lot and if the person held a gun on you at very close range, it is very easy to take it away. It is even easier to disable the hand holding the weapon so it is useless and unable to function to pull the trigger.

Now, many forms of martial arts have a couple of moves to disarm an armed person they show students, but they do not practice it much. If done wrong, you will likely leave yourself open to being shot and that does not count pissing off the attacker.

At the studio I trained at, we had some women who successfully took on guys 3 times their size in SD and beat the s*** out of them to the point they spent weeks in the hospital to recover. These women also had a few years of training.

Now, after my stroke, I became physically incapable of SD through martial arts so I got back into guns. Now that I have recovered as much as I will and have regained 80% of my strength, I would have no problem using what I know to disarm an attacker with a gun that is within arms or legs reach of me. If someone with a knife was within the 21' and I knew I could not get to the gun, I would use the martial arts. If I can get to the gun, then I will use the gun.

Do not think about it as martial arts or gun. Each is a tool and has its place. Reality is you will not have a gun available 24/7 and even if you do you may not be able to access quick enough. Martial arts may buy you the precious few seconds to get to your firearm.

Finally, martial arts will teach you that your real weapon is your mind, everything else is just a tool. It is amazing what you can use as a tool in self-defense.

I understand about bad experiences with BG with guns. Twice as a young teen I had to use a gun in self-defense in situation where it was me or the other person(s). Once I was on my own because nobody wanted to get involved to even call the police. The other time the police where on the other end of the phone and were just a minute away when the BGs came through the door.

I have also used martial arts in SD situations a couple of times in my life. Deadly force would have been hard for me to justify but I certainly used enough force to stop the threat and made the attacker decide he had enough. The LEO that investigated also agreed. In one case, even if I had a gun or knife, I would not have been able to use it, the first I knew the BG was coming for me is when I turned to see where the yelling was coming from just in time to avoid his attempt to blind side me.

[Kowan]

The 21' rule you may have heard about comes from a person with a knife running at you at top speed on average can get to you faster than you will be able to unholster and fire your weapon if that person is within 21'.

Massad Ayoob in one of his classes had a 60 yrs old man with arthritis walk quickly towards a holstered gun owner 21 feet away.
The old man was there in 1.5 seconds.

[L84CABO]

Personally, I don't think there are a lot of fence sitters. A few...but not a lot. And when you encounter them, taking them shooting is still the best approach.

[AreWeFree]

Massad Ayoob in one of his classes had a 60 yrs old man with arthritis walk quickly towards a holstered gun owner 21 feet away.
The old man was there in 1.5 seconds.

Seriously? 14fps would be 9.54 mph... that's a little more brisk than your average mall walker.

[AreWeFree]

Personally, I don't think there are a lot of fence sitters. A few...but not a lot. And when you encounter them, taking them shooting is still the best approach.

Just a thought, I wonder how many on the anti-gun side are in reality 'undecided' but anti-gun simply by exposure from their peers. They have absolutely zero experience with firearms, never even seeing one in person, thus having no real information to form a rational opinion.

With that basis, you can never use facts and information to change their mind because they've been poisoned for years by misinformation from their peers.

Only real world experience and taking them shooting can change their perspective, which then allows for meaningful and thoughtful discussion.

[Wes C Addle]

had a former co-worker who had been shot 5 times with a 38 in FL in 2001 (didn't know it at the time) and invited him to a local indoor range. 6 months later, he had an AR and a few pistols.

i think it really just boils down them overcoming their fears about any myths about guns. take your fence sitter to the range

[MB3]

I additionally agree that ultimately the best way to go about growing 2A supporters is through proper range time. Every single person I have put through some kind of live fire training who did not own a firearm at that point in time, became a gun owner eventually, whether it was the following day or month. Every single one, which off the top of my head is at least 8. Get em on the line. Ensure proper safety protocols. And have some fun...