Grain?

[Rottentofu]

No question is dumb...though some of the answers might be.

The .223 bullet is longer, but the smaller diameter makes it weigh less than the 9mm bullet. Remember that calibers are designated by nominal bullet diameter, not bullet length.

Understood. Thank you for the explanation.

[hermosabeach]

Many folks have a similar question as the OP on Grain when it comes to shotguns listing charges in DRAMS or velocity in FPS

or even MAX DRAM

Federal Ammunition 12-Gauge 3 DRAM

[CicciLaPorta]

Someone once told me that dean on shotgun shell boxes in not relevant these days.

[Decoligny]

Could you please post a BIGGER PICTURE!

[Darto]

Dram equivalence is equivalent force to that dram weight of vintage black powder. In the old days drams of powder in the load told the buyer the power/velocity to expect from that load he was buying. When smokeless powder came in, Dram Equivalence was printed on box to give this information in terms familiar to these buyers who grew up during black powder days.

I find it useful for a quick reference when buying in a store and am annoyed when it is not shown on the box.

[NapalmCheese]

Dram equivalence is equivalent force to that dram weight of vintage black powder. In the old days drams of powder in the load told the buyer the power/velocity to expect from that load he was buying. When smokeless powder came in, Dram Equivalence was printed on box to give this information in terms familiar to these buyers who grew up during black powder days.

I find it useful for a quick reference when buying in a store and am annoyed when it is not shown on the box.

^^^ this.

Dram equivalence or FPS should be printed on the box, either works, but I wish it were consistent (not everyone prints one, the other, or both).

[CSACANNONEER]

Bullet weight is only one part of the equation so, it alone doesn't paint the whole picture. I think that commercial ammo has the bullet weight on it partially for marketing just because, it is expected to be there. Except for shotgun shells, no manufacturer that I know of has ever put the powder charge and burn rate on a box. Well, now that I think about it, bullet weight alone did mean something prior to smokeless powder. A 30-30 had 30 grains of black powder under a bullet weighing so much.

[CSACANNONEER]

Someone once told me that dean on shotgun shell boxes in not relevant these days.

"Someone" was wrong.

[2761377]

the .30 Winchester Center Fire cartridge was developed using smokeless powder.

when other (UMC) companies began producing the cartridge, they didn't want to use the proprietary Winchester name so they reverted to the blackpowder-style nomenclature, but it has always been a smokeless propellant cartridge.

the blackpowder nomenclature refers to caliber, then charge weight.

hth

[CSACANNONEER]

the .30 Winchester Center Fire cartridge was developed using smokeless powder.

when other (UMC) companies began producing the cartridge, they didn't want to use the proprietary Winchester name so they reverted to the blackpowder-style nomenclature, but it has always been a smokeless propellant cartridge.

the blackpowder nomenclature refers to caliber, then charge weight.

hth

I didn't know it was developed with smokeless powder. I guess I should have used 44-40, 45-70, 25-20, etc. as an example. Yes, the first number designates the caliber, the second and the charge weight. With those cartridges, loaded as intended, adding a bullet weight on the box means a lot more than it does on more modern ammo.

[2761377]

^^^ your example is perfectly valid- .30 cal above 30 grains of powder. that it's smokeless is immaterial.

apparently I spend too much time reading Barnes' book- to me, 30 WCF is famously the first commercial smokeless powder cartridge.


after checking the facts in my post (not an example of scholarly rectitude) allow me to amend my comment- .30 WCF was the first American commercial smokeless powder cartridge.

[beretta929mm]

We need to start adopting grams, like the rest of the world...
Just wishful thinking on my part

[CicciLaPorta]

We need to start adopting grams, like the rest of the world...
Just wishful thinking on my part

This^
I worked on a project with German designs and using their metric system was so much more efficient.

[beretta929mm]

I too had a difficult time explaining the measuring units that we use on firearms to visitors from other countries.

45 ACP? WTF is that? Well, let's see... that is equivalent to 11.43mm in other publications.