Question: Single DROS, multiple weapons

[ROMEOHOTEL]

After starting the DROS process the retailer (brick and mortar established business) informs the buyer that they are out of stock on one of the firearms. The retailer anticipates receiving that firearm possibly after the 30 day period. The retailer suggests splitting the order but that option is not acceptable to the buyer. Further, the clerk who originally initiated the DROS did imply all firearms were in stock. Apparently the clerk exceeded his authority.

As buyer what would you do? My suggestion is that the retailer pay for the 2nd DROS, at least.

[syap34]

This may be a dumb question. But how did they start the dros? Don't they need serial numbers before they can start it?

[toby]

This may be a dumb question. But how did they start the dros? Don't they need serial numbers before they can start it?

Serial numbers can be electronically sent and used to start DROS some gun shops will do this with Gun Genie.

[someoneeasy]

Seller shouldn't have to pay for the second DROS. If you really want to save yourself the 25 bucks, pay for the gun they have in Stock and start the DROS when the other gun comes in.

[JDay]

Serial numbers can be electronically sent and used to start DROS some gun shops will do this with Gun Genie.

That's not legal. It has to be in inventory on location. Any FFL doing this is going to have a very bad day when they get audited by CA DOJ or the ATF.

[ROMEOHOTEL]

Forgive me, I forgot to say that there is a sizeable deposit for this order. The retailer, agreed via a clerk, whatever that's worth, the deposit could be in jeopardy over this.

I don't know about the S/N, I am not party to the deal.

Needless to say the buyer is upset.

[SheepDog78]

There's definitely some shady sh** going on in this post. Dealer submits a DROS for a firearm not in stock? A sizeable deposit which could be 'in jeopardy?' Sounds like a perfect time for give me my f***ing money back and go find a new dealer. Too many good dealers around to deal with that kind of trouble.

[ke6guj]

That's not legal. It has to be in inventory on location. Any FFL doing this is going to have a very bad day when they get audited by CA DOJ or the ATF.

not sure why ATF would have a problem with that. the serial number is not written on the 4473 until after the firearm arrives at the dealer and signed by the customer at pickup.


as for CADOJ, I'd guess that most sales by Turners locations do not have the firearm on location, and CADOJ doesn't ding them for that either. when you buy from Turners, they usually assign a firearm to the DROS from the central warehouse (at least when they have a big sale) or may transfer from another store, but the DROS is started when you are at the store, you don't have to wait until the firearm is physically on location.

[JDay]

I'm pretty sure you cannot submit a DROS without the serial.

[ke6guj]

I'm pretty sure you cannot submit a DROS without the serial.

I didn't say that they could, just that they did not have to have the firearm on location. Turners knows the serial numbers for all the firearms that they have at any of their stores or warehouses. so even though the firearm is not on the FFL book of the Turners where you make the purchase, they can still start the DROS because they know what serial number they will be transfering to you.

but I have never seen any FFL fill out the serial number section when I did the initial fill-out of the 4473. the serial number is not required there until I do the final pickup in 10-30 days.

[ROMEOHOTEL]

Good guess that it is Turners. You are correct.

Assuming the information I got from the buyer is correct, the DROS has not yet been started. It will be started when the firearm in question is received. What is in contention is that Turners accepted a sizeable deposit for multiple firearms to be included on one DROS. That deposit includes firearms not physically held by the merchant. The buyer is alarmed that the 30 day period will expire prior to receipt by Turners of the firearms thereby the buyer will lose his deposit of several hundreds of dollars.

[Baboosh]

That's not legal. It has to be in inventory on location. Any FFL doing this is going to have a very bad day when they get audited by CA DOJ or the ATF.

ATF wouldn't care, the firearm is not on the dealers books and therefore does not need to be checked during an audit.

From my readings of the law it is not illegal to start DROS on a serial number but the DOJ does not like it. I believe a dealer n Norcal years ago had a DOJ audit and they had guns in DROS that were not on site and the agent couldn't cite the law that says they can't do that. Nothing happened to them

[ROMEOHOTEL]

Update:

Today the purchaser picked up all the firearms. Even though it is now 3 weeks after the end of the 30 day period he's happy with the transaction.

Question: When is a firearm 'sold'?

The purchase receipt listed all zeros for the serial number of the firearm in question.

Anyway, I guess the lesson here is to verify the seller actually has the firearm in possession, or in stock, before finalizing the purchase.

Side note: the purchaser wanted to add another firearm to the whole shebang. The seller said that would involve a 2nd purchase receipt therefore it was a no go. I don't know how this relates to the main subject but it seems to me that given the abnormal wait and the DROS had yet to be started it would be easy to add multiple purchases to one DROS.

Is there a law which prevents adding an additional purchase? Or could it be that is simply was inconvenient to add the additional purchase to a DROS which was in 'standby status', ie, waiting for all firearms to arrive in order to provide S/N.