Question About gun locks

[asintado]

I recently sold a gun to another individual and when we went to do the PPT they would not let me transfer the gun lock to him along with the gun. The guy at the store said he needed a receipt for him to be able to use it. I then asked if I could format a receipt and print it out for both the buyer and I to sign showing that I sold it to him. He said no, it has to be from them or walmart or something. I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it, but I was willing to give the guy my lock w/ the sale and now he has to buy one.

[Sig226]

I recently sold a gun to another individual and when we went to do the PPT they would not let me transfer the gun lock to him along with the gun. The guy at the store said he needed a receipt for him to be able to use it. I then asked if I could format a receipt and print it out for both the buyer and I to sign showing that I sold it to him. He said no, it has to be from them or walmart or something. I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it, but I was willing to give the guy my lock w/ the sale and now he has to buy one.

SO long as your "charged" him $0.01 and you wrote a reciept this would be kosher.

F that FFL, he is wrong.

Dave

[VeryCoolCat]

I've heard of people going to another store, buying a trigger lock, doing their thing then returning it later.

[rips31]

you sold the gun and the lock as a package. make a receipt w/that on it and make sure to itemize.

[asintado]

The transfer has already been completed, he just wouldn't let me sell the lock (Master model 107 which is DOJ approved) with the gun as its accessories. Then I told him I would drum up a receipt showing that he purchased the lock from me for an amount and have both the buyer and I sign it, he said that wouldn't work either. The buyer is OK with it, he said he would just run down to walmart and get a lock. I was just curious if the guy at the store is a d!ck or I'm just wrong.

[socalguns]

The transfer has already been completed, he just wouldn't let me sell the lock (Master model 107 which is DOJ approved) with the gun as its accessories. Then I told him I would drum up a receipt showing that he purchased the lock from me for an amount and have both the buyer and I sign it, he said that wouldn't work either. The buyer is OK with it, he said he would just run down to walmart and get a lock. I was just curious if the guy at the store is a d!ck or I'm just wrong.

The guy in the store is a d!ck.
He's probably the type of guy who opens firearms boxes and
REMOVES manufacturer provided california approved locks
so he can sell them on the side.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

Like everybody says, the Dealer is out of line. If you want to show him the exact wording of the law you can find it on CalDOJ's web site. It just says you need to buy a lock and bring in the receipt that includes the required information. There is no mention of having to buy the lock from the Dealer or from a certain type of store like Walmart.

12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on the roster for use with the device.

(e) The sale or transfer of a firearm shall be exempt from subdivision (a) if all of the following apply:

(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to the firearms dealer which shows the date of purchase, the name, and the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in (1) to (3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

[tenpercentfirearms]

I would like to ask that before you guys pass judgement on this dealer, you take a step back and think about this one.

First, thie whole FSD (firearms safety device) thing is one big scam. The entire idea is absurd. When you implement something so absurd it is bound to be confusing and a major pain in the rear.

Now, my main goal as a dealer is to follow the law and stay in business. I want to try and logically follow the law and stay out of trouble when the DOJ comes in to do an audit.

The problem with the FSD requirements is if you really read them, they are pretty vague. I just did a lot of thinking about it and reading into it and I sort of realize now that the entire thing is fairly intimidating, until you carefully read the law.

What I just came to the realization is that I am taking this FSD thing way too seriously. I want to be so careful not to screw this up because the legislature and the DOJ make it look like a big deal, I feel reluctant to try and skirt around it or even appear to skirt around it. However, after reading the law it is pretty clear that it is so full of holes, I really won't be skirting anything. A combination of myself and the customer can do just about anything to comply with this.

So after reading this law I have come to the following conclusions and you can feel free to share this with other gun dealers.

1) This law is completely vauge. For example, it does not specify how I am supposed to show compliance with exception of when you bring your own lock in. I know the DOJ wants me to write it down on the DROS worksheet after I print it out, but even then I don't see any regulations that require this.

2) From now on I will take any receipt that shows you are complying with the law. This will be accomplished exactly by this method.

(1) The purchaser or transferee purchases an approved safety
device no more than 30 days prior to the day the purchaser or
transferee takes possession of the firearm.
(2) The purchaser or transferee presents the approved safety
device to the firearms dealer when picking up the firearm.
(3) The purchaser or transferee presents an original receipt to
the firearms dealer which shows the date of purchase, the name, and
the model number of the safety device.
(4) The firearms dealer verifies that the requirements in (1) to
(3), inclusive, have been satisfied.
(5) The firearms dealer maintains a copy of the receipt along with
the dealers' record of sales of firearms.

3) Take a look at this

12088.1. (a) All firearms sold or transferred in this state by a
licensed firearms dealer, including private transfers through a
dealer, and all firearms manufactured in this state, shall include or
be accompanied by a firearms safety device that is listed on the
Department of Justice's roster of approved firearms safety devices
and that is identified as appropriate for that firearm by reference
to either the manufacturer and model of the firearm, or to the
physical characteristics of the firearm that match those listed on
the roster for use with the device.

It does not say that I must sell you a lock. It just says that the firearm shall include or be accompanied by a lock. If you really think about it, why do you even have to bring in a lock with a receipt within 30 days if the gun already includes or is accompanied by a FSD? It doesn't stipulate where the FSD should come from. It just says includes or accompanies. So whether the gun lock that accompanies the firearm I am transfering came from the manufacturer, from my store, or from your house, it doesn't matter as long as it is approved and on the list. The only reason you would bring in a receipt is if you want to be exempt from section 12088.1(a). Well you don't have to be exempt from (a) if the gun is accompanied by an approved FSD. It does not state where that accompanied lock has to come from.

HOLY CRAP! I just e-mailed the DOJ and asked for any further regulations they have on FSDs other than 12087 or 12088. Lets see if they get anything back to me. If they don't, then I am basically going to follow the law and make sure every firearm is accompanied by a lock. And from now on I don't give a damn where that lock came from.

Of course I might forward this on to a lawyer and see what they say.