Return label with no insurance?

[Cactuscooler]

A manufacture sent me a label for UPS ground, I went to the hub today and asked them to scan it to see if it had insurance on it. " No insurance, we'd only refund you 100.000$. If you wanted it, you'll to buy a new label". So i went ahead and did. The manufacture told me not to declare the firearm and insist it's " sporting goods". Which I thought was silly. I declared the firearm and ordered a new label with insurance.

Am I right to ask for compensation in this instance?

[onelonehorseman]

I would. Shipping a firearm uninsured and declaring it as something else is not a good idea IMO.

[Gryff]

Probably not since you didn't clarify with the manufacturer. Many companies either self-insure or pay for third-party shipping insurance at a cheaper rate than the shipping companies charge.

You assumed that the package was not insured and paid money without clarifying first. You can ask for reimbursement, but be prepared to have to eat the cost if the manufacturer tells you shouldn't have made the purchase.

[Cactuscooler]

^

That's more or less when I got in the email from them. " Due to business agreements with UPS, the issue would been handled by us and UPS. There was no need to re-purchase the label and we will not compensate".

Oh,well 30.00$ with piece of mind I suppose. Lesson learned.

[BKinzey]

They sent you the label, they then accepted the responsibility. All you need is proof you shipped it. If it was lost they would get $100. You would negotiate a replacement or appropriate amount of money.

However, not declaring it as a firearm would be illegal so you were right to make that decision yourself. You should be able to use that as grounds for them to pay the new charges.

Once you saw the label was for no insurance and they wanted you to ship it as "sporting goods" you should have contacted them with your concerns before shipping it.

[Gryff]

However, not declaring it as a firearm would be illegal so you were right to make that decision yourself. You should be able to use that as grounds for them to pay the new charges.

Just to split hairs, I'm reasonably sure you are not legally required to declare a firearm when shipping via common carrier. You are in violation of their terms of service if you don't, and probably forfeit any insurance/protections they provide as part of the service. I think USPS is the only one you are legally obligated to declare it as a firearm.

[ke6guj]

They sent you the label, they then accepted the responsibility. All you need is proof you shipped it. If it was lost they would get $100. You would negotiate a replacement or appropriate amount of money.

exactly.

However, not declaring it as a firearm would be illegal so you were right to make that decision yourself. You should be able to use that as grounds for them to pay the new charges.

incorrect. the firearm was being shipped TO an FFL, as such there is no legal requirement to declare.

Once you saw the label was for no insurance and they wanted you to ship it as "sporting goods" you should have contacted them with your concerns before shipping it.

yup, call to clarify before you go against the provided instructions for the return.

[CK_32]

I'd contact them.

If they say send it antways get it in wrighting that if it's lost guess who gets to pay.

I think I've sent 2 guns back uninsured, I did what above. Nothing went wrong. But if it did either way I'd be fine.

[L84CABO]

^

That's more or less when I got in the email from them. " Due to business agreements with UPS, the issue would been handled by us and UPS. There was no need to re-purchase the label and we will not compensate".

Oh,well 30.00$ with piece of mind I suppose. Lesson learned.

Many companies have independent blanket insurance policies to cover transit losses. And some simply don't care as they've made a business decision to replace the odd shipment that goes missing instead of paying for insurance.

When you send a gun back on a mfg's call tag, you want to be sure you have this discussion up front. Make sure you understand who will pay for the loss if it happens.

And make sure you understand how the shipment is going back (overnight vs 2 day, etc.). Note that while FFL's may be allowed to ship guns 2 Day, it is company policy of both Fed Ex and UPS that guns from consumers must go overnight. Sometimes MFG's will forget this and send you a 2 Day tag. And other times, like this, they know it and they ask that you not declare it to save money.

[ke6guj]

Many companies have independent blanket insurance policies to cover transit losses. And some simply don't care as they've made a business decision to replace the odd shipment that goes missing instead of paying for insurance.

When you send a gun back on a mfg's call tag, you want to be sure you have this discussion up front. Make sure you understand who will pay for the loss if it happens.

And make sure you understand how the shipment is going back (overnight vs 2 day, etc.). Note that while FFL's may be allowed to ship guns 2 Day, it is company policy of both Fed Ex and UPS that guns from consumers must go overnight. Sometimes MFG's will forget this and send you a 2 Day tag. And other times, like this, they know it and they ask that you not declare it to save money.

not necessarily. it might be in their shipping agreement that shipments to/from them can go at the slower transit time.

[dustoff31]

I'm reasonably sure you are not legally required to declare a firearm when shipping via common carrier

Actually, you are required to do so:

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-frequently-asked-questions-unlicensed-persons#shipping-firearms-carrier

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier?

A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]

[ke6guj]

Actually, you are required to do so:

http://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-...rearms-carrier

No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.


but since the firearm would be shipped to the manufacturer, then there is no requirement to notify and no violation of the law happens.

[dustoff31]

No person shall knowingly deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce to any person other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped: Provided, That any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of that trip without violating any provision of this part.


but since the firearm would be shipped to the manufacturer, then there is no requirement to notify and no violation of the law happens.

Interesting. Looks like BATF is taking FUD lessons from CA DOJ.

[9mmepiphany]

The BATF rules are pretty clear if you read their actual code.

Going by their FAQ and thinking it accurately represents what the section says is what causes confusion