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Covid Vaccine Side Effects: 4 Takeaways From NY Times Investigation

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  • #16
    TrappedinCalifornia
    Calguns Addict
    • Jan 2018
    • 8235

    Originally posted by karsk
    just the first point is highly debatable

    For most people, the benefits of Covid vaccines outweigh any risks..
    That's actually the 'trick.' They have been playing the causation/correlation game. They're claiming that the so-called 'vaccine' was responsible for people NOT getting or, at least, not dying from COVID.

    The problem? If you go back through the threads, you'll find a preponderance weren't dying from COVID to begin with. You'll also find threads dealing with the idea that it didn't prevent people from catching COVID; which is why I refer to it as a "so-called 'vaccine'" in that the literally changed the definitions of vaccine and vaccination, removing 'provides immunity' and replacing it with 'immune response,' to 'cover' what was going on. The former used to indicate one was not susceptible. The latter is descriptive of a process which leads to a potential capability. You'll find threads on that too.

    They repeatedly declare that our 'objections' aren't valid in that correlation is not synonymous with causation. While that's true enough, they also refuse to look in the mirror. It's never been established that the so-called 'vaccines' caused a 'decline' in hospitalizations and death. It's simply a 'correlation,' something which we've also talked about in relation to how a virus naturally mutates and a disease naturally progresses.

    By the same token, those who object to the so-called 'vaccines' or, at least, the mandating of them, can show a correlation with negative consequences, but not necessarily a causation.

    Again, the problem? All of this is why a true vaccine took years to achieve 'deployable' status. It didn't all come down to 'paperwork' and a lot of it was tied to 'proper' testing, something which was never done or truly achieved with these so-called 'vaccines.' What we're now hearing about 'consequences' is something which used to be part of the process prior to authorization. Such is why so many claim that the entire World's population became the guinea pigs or test subjects.

    That last actually forms the basis of Creeping Incrementalism's argument; i.e., that the process undertaken forced far too many to make a choice they shouldn't have had to make. My reaction has been that while that is true enough, he can't, justifiably or reasonably, blame the entirety of the population for the process being implemented or hold the entirety of the population responsible for its implementation. In point of fact, you can't even hold the entirety of those who supported the machinations 'responsible' for how they were implemented. Not only due to their actual convictions that they were doing the 'right thing,' but because the vast majority weren't consulted.

    As you say, there were a great deal of 'debatable' things which occurred, we even had some of those debates on this site, and, objectively speaking, many of those debates have yet to actually reach a properly Scientific resolution.

    It's why it shouldn't have been 'mandated' and why many were justified in saying, in essence... "Pays your money, makes your choice, live with the consequences."

    Comment

    • #17
      LBDamned
      I need a LIFE!!
      • Feb 2011
      • 19040

      Originally posted by karsk
      just the first point is highly debatable

      For most people, the benefits of Covid vaccines outweigh any risks..
      What benefits and what risks?
      "Kamala is a radical leftist lunatic" ~ Donald J. Trump

      Comment

      • #18
        Creeping Incrementalism
        Senior Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 1721

        Originally posted by TrappedinCalifornia

        In a sense, it's what the professor indicated; i.e., statistics can be 'made' to support a point of view. That doesn't necessarily make the 'interpretation' or the assertions drawn therefrom 'truthful' or a representation of 'reality.'
        In that sense, what I have been hoping to do is shed a little light on the conclusions you've drawn so that you and others might see that you have been engaged in some 'road paving' where the destination you are bound for isn't necessarily a 'better' one.
        If all you were saying is that some conservatives flipped their support on the CDC based on who was running the federal government, I would not disagree with that there were probably a few of those.

        But for me, I supported the CDC at first because it said to not freak out, and the CDC kept to the overwhelming, decades-old conventional wisdom that lockdowns do not work. I'd extrapolate that to most conservatives. Conservatives were at odds with the CDC within a few months in 2020, while Trump was still president.

        Comment

        • #19
          sbo80
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2014
          • 2263

          of course it's always taken a long time to get vaccines approved. It's not all that difficult to determine if a vaccine works. But it is difficult to prove that it doesn't hurt also, at scale. That's what truly determines if it should be mass distributed. And since they weren't able to do that, here we are. Even basic vaccines like measles, there's somebody out there who's going to have a bad reaction. But one or two, out of millions, is "worth it". Thousands, out of millions, probably not worth it.
          And truthfully it is also difficult to prove now that the vaccine caused all these other problems too. Humans are fragile and they break all the time for a zillion reasons. Clearly linking it to the vaccine is problematic. Scientifically anyhow. With almost no control group, it has destroyed any reliability in results. We're only left with "probably", which is a legal sense is the same as "probably not". Unfortunately.

          Comment

          • #20
            TrappedinCalifornia
            Calguns Addict
            • Jan 2018
            • 8235

            Originally posted by Creeping Incrementalism



            If all you were saying is that some conservatives flipped their support on the CDC based on who was running the federal government, I would not disagree with that there were probably a few of those.

            But for me, I supported the CDC at first because it said to not freak out, and the CDC kept to the overwhelming, decades-old conventional wisdom that lockdowns do not work. I'd extrapolate that to most conservatives. Conservatives were at odds with the CDC within a few months in 2020, while Trump was still president.
            Which, as I have repeatedly pointed out, Conservative support waned over time. It wasn't all about who was running things; though, I grant, that was part of it. But, if you'll recall, the 'rules of the game' changed significantly when Biden took power,

            Lockdowns have a purpose and a place. Extended lockdowns, however, are what don't work. That was a major part of what changed between Trump in control and Biden in control. It's also a major part of what set the state responses apart and that had to do with who was in power, for the most part.

            What also changed was the availability of the so-called 'vaccines' and the thought processes which brought about the mandates.

            As I said, you're Monday Morning Quarterbacking and interpolating facts to support your own conclusions. Go back and read that post/survey again. It says that Republicans ... were more inclined to say the pandemic had been overblown (47%) than to give any other response but thatPut another way, a plurality, not a majority, of Republicans were already inclined to say/conclude/believe that the whole thing was being overblown, but a solid majority of Republicans were confident that the CDC, et al. were doing a good job or, as I said before, you could say they were, initially, supportive, but skeptical or more watchful.

            Some? Did they flip their support based on who was running the show or based on how the results were turning out? Uh...

            Comment

            • #21
              Creeping Incrementalism
              Senior Member
              • Dec 2005
              • 1721

              I'm posting this thread from last summer mostly to see how well CalGuns is working. Either way --

              It is not Monday Morning Quarterbacking at all to say that a poll showed that Republicans agreed with the CDC when, early in the pandemic, the CDC was saying to _not_ freak out, means that most Republicans had the opinion based on who was in power. (I've re-read the poll several times.) In fact it agrees with how I felt at the time: we should not freak out and the CDC was saying we should not freak out.

              Further, no lockdowns ever have any place for a new virus sweeping the land. The more contagious a virus is, the more worthless the lockdown is. Resistance is futile.

              Originally posted by TrappedinCalifornia

              As I said, you're Monday Morning Quarterbacking and interpolating facts to support your own conclusions. Go back and read that post/survey again. It says that Republicans ... were more inclined to say the pandemic had been overblown (47%) than to give any other response but that fully 87% of Republicans said they were very or somewhat confident that public health officials at the CDC were doing a good job responding to the pandemic. Put another way, a plurality, not a majority, of Republicans were already inclined to say/conclude/believe that the whole thing was being overblown, but a solid majority of Republicans were confident that the CDC, et al. were doing a good job or, as I said before, you could say they were, initially, supportive, but skeptical or more watchful.
              :
              Last edited by Creeping Incrementalism; 03-24-2025, 2:01 PM.

              Comment

              • #22
                TrappedinCalifornia
                Calguns Addict
                • Jan 2018
                • 8235

                Originally posted by Creeping Incrementalism
                I'm posting this thread from last summer mostly to see how well CalGuns is working. Either way --

                It is not Monday Morning Quarterbacking at all to say that a poll showed that Republicans agreed with the CDC when, early in the pandemic, the CDC was saying to _not_ freak out, means that most Republicans had the opinion based on who was in power. (I've re-read the poll several times.) In fact it agrees with how I felt at the time: we should not freak out and the CDC was saying we should not freak out.

                Further, no lockdowns ever have any place for a new virus sweeping the land. The more contagious a virus is, the more worthless the lockdown is. Resistance is futile.
                At this point, nine months after our interaction, the debate is largely moot and neither you nor I control who will be historically named responsible, who will/won't be prosecuted, etc.

                But, as I said, it's fair to say that a plurality of Republicans were skeptical and a plurality was supportive, but neither 'side' had a majority or a solid majority which lasted over time. Thus, saying "Republicans/Conservatives supported" or "Republicans/Conservatives approved" is a bit misleading. It's the same as saying "the country agreed" when we know that substantial portions of the country didn't agree.

                Remember, as I said, Republican 'skepticism' developed or was accentuated over time and, in particular, with the change in leadership and that seems to be precisely what the poll is indicating. It had to do, at least in some measure, with who or what polemic was in power and what their agenda was as to how the individual Parties shook out. In fact, if you read what I quote in that post, you'll find that, statistically speaking, even Democrats were somewhat 'evenly' divided, at least initially, over whether it was being handled 'about right' or if it was being 'undersold.'

                What changed? Insofar as the lockdowns, go back and look at what I noted...

                Originally posted by TrappedinCalifornia
                ...Lockdowns have a purpose and a place. Extended lockdowns, however, are what don't work. That was a major part of what changed between Trump in control and Biden in control. It's also a major part of what set the state responses apart and that had to do with who was in power, for the most part...
                However, as I said, at this point, trying to point fingers is just taking up electrons. We don't get to decide. We don't get to prosecute. We don't get to make policy. All we get to do is vote and, unfortunately, when it comes to something like a new virus, no one has omniscience. In fact, we're still seeing it debated and/or 'new evidence' coming out, meaning no one actually knows, in a provable fashion, who knew what and when.

                We just know, in retrospect (What was that about Monday Morning Quarterbacking?) what, evidently, didn't work, what wasn't working, and what we believed (individually) at the time about what and who.

                Comment

                • #23
                  theLBC
                  CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                  CGN Contributor
                  • Oct 2017
                  • 6132

                  Comment

                  • #24
                    Palmaris
                    CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                    CGN Contributor
                    • Mar 2009
                    • 6039

                    PFIZER JUST RELEASED THE LIST OF SIDE-EFFECTS OF ITS "COVID-19 VACCINE"💉.. and the list of some side effects of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine against COVID-19. ATTENTION!




                    Blood thrombosis. Acute kidney injury ,

                    Acute Flacid Myelitis,

                    Positive antibodies for antibodies,

                    Brain stem embolishment,

                    Cerephalic Tract Thrombosis,

                    Cardiac arrest (hundreds of cases)

                    Heart Failure ,

                    Heart ventricular thrombosis ,

                    Shock cardiogénico,

                    Vasculitis of the central nervous system,

                    Neonatal death,

                    Deep venous thrombosis ,

                    Encephalitis of the brain stem,

                    Hemorrhagic Encephalitis ,

                    Epilepsy of the frontal lobe,

                    Oral spit,

                    Epileptic psychosis,

                    Facial Paralysis,

                    Syndrome of fetal suffering,

                    Amiloidosis gastrointestinal,

                    Widespread tonic-clonic seizures,

                    Hashimoto's Encephalopathy,

                    Liver vascular thrombosis,

                    Reactivation of shingles,

                    Immunomedial hepatitis ,

                    Interstitial lung disease ,

                    Jugular Vein Embolism,

                    Juvenile Myoclonic Disease Epilepsy,

                    Liver damage,

                    Underweight at Birth,

                    Infant multisystem inflammatory syndrome, myocarditis,

                    Neonatal seizures,

                    Pancreatitis,

                    Pneumonia ,

                    Fatal death,

                    Tachycardia,

                    Temporary Lobular Epilepsy,

                    Autoinmunidad testicular,

                    Thrombotic stroke,

                    Diabetes Mellitus Type 1

                    Trombosis venosa neonatal,

                    Thrombosis of the spinal artery,

                    Pericarditis,

                    Sudden death.




                    These side effects SHOULD have been published SO PEOPLE could make INFORMED medical decisions. Instead of a blank leaf.

                    sd_shooter:
                    CGN couch patriots: "We the people!"

                    In real life: No one

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