US to add heart inflammation warning for Covid mRNA vaccines for teens

[as_rocketman]

The issue with even those "mild" cases of myocarditis is that they can leave "islands" of dead heart cells. This can cause re-entry types of arrhythmias. This is what leads to serious heart rhythms such as ventricular tachycardia after a heart attack.

[...]

You will never know if you have an island of dead cardiac tissue capable of causing a fatal arrhythmia until you have one. If you are lucky enough to not die from the myocarditis or an early arrhythmia, you can go years after the insult before "suddenly" having an event.

The amount of glossing over and minimizing that this is receiving is astonishing. Only time will tell how bad this is, and that's only if there isn't a huge attempt to cover up the evidence later.

Note that you do NOT have to kill the entire heart OR a significant enough portion to lead to immediate death from heart failure, you only need to kill ONE small island of tissue that is large enough to support a reentry arrhythmia under any set of circumstances that might happen for the remainder of the patients lifetime.

I did want to express my appreciation for your explanations. This is helping me parse the seeming disconnect between some of the more dire opinions and the far less alarmist estimates I'm encountering in the literature.

Ultimately, what it comes down to is the numbers. On an individual basis, there may not be an easy way to establish a prognosis, but we should still be able to characterize the response in the population. This kind of delayed and hidden fault behavior is familiar in the field of reliability -- the statistics are a little more complicated, but not insoluble.

One thing that interests me, and remains to be seen, is the precise mechanism at work -- particularly when we contrast mRNA action against viral action leading to heart inflammation. The epitope itself may be an irritant, but it seems that autoimmune response is more likely. But there is still a chance that it's part of the adjuvant or some other specific ingredient in the vaccine itself, something that could potentially be changed. I note that there are even examples of Janssen-induced myocarditis that appear not to be coincidental, albeit very few; then again, we mostly see this in youth, and they were not authorized for Janssen.

The biggest mystery is why this is so concentrated in teenage boys. I know they're at greater risk overall, background included, but it seems to be a pretty sharp resonance for these vaccines. That's a strange clue.

[Scota4570]

It's funny how the queue cards go around.. every news caster, every article always says"extremely rare" before saying heart inflammation... Really?? So rare that they need to put a warning???

It is appears on a teleprompter and they read it. The words on the prompter are given to the media outlets by the DNC. The news media is controlled by the DNC. I hope nobody here believes they report objective facts or do any sort of investigative reporting. The mainstream news is simply propaganda. It has been for many years.

[Libertarian777]

For those who don't understand what the "islands" issue might be, here's a graphic. It's not the best because it appears to show the myocardium as something inside another layer of myocardial tissue, but the graphic showing the wandering of electrical impulses leading the electricity right back to an earlier point is good.




The lighter grey is normal tissue, the darker grey is dead tissue (or in an acute MI it can be "stunned" by lack of blood flow but not yet dead). Depending upon how large the area and how lucky/unlucky the patient might be, the arrhythmia may occur promptly or it may take months or years. Of note is how the impulse no longer just sweeps across the heart in one direction (left to right here), but circles between 3, 4 and 6. This localized "short-circuit" will spread out from that localized area and stimulate the entire ventricle, usually at a rate so rapid that it is lethal-"ventricular tachycardia".

Note that you do NOT have to kill the entire heart OR a significant enough portion to lead to immediate death from heart failure, you only need to kill ONE small island of tissue that is large enough to support a reentry arrhythmia under any set of circumstances that might happen for the remainder of the patients lifetime.

You're clearly our resident expert
What I'm wondering is
1. Can you have myocarditis without showing any symptoms and then have an arrhythmia at a certain point in future
2. Is there a period of time where an arrhythmia is more likely to occur after myocarditis or is it completely luck (e.g.is it more likely to occur within a year or approximate odds are even for the rest of your life)
3. How bad is the myocarditis from a covid infection (rates, deaths etc) in young children (under 12)
4. What is the background rate for myocarditis in the general population (I get varying answers from Google)

[bigbossman]

You're clearly our resident expert...

Ouch. that's gonna hurt Walls of Text Guy. He wants so desperately to be the expert. And Ball-Boy probably flinched a little bit, too.

[Libertarian777]

Ouch. that's gonna hurt Walls of Text Guy. He wants so desperately to be the expert. And Ball-Boy probably flinched a little bit, too.

Well werryj and erdept actually live this sh|t daily. I'm quite sure they don't double blind RCT everything and actually use observation and care for patients

[stix213]

You're clearly our resident expert
What I'm wondering is
1. Can you have myocarditis without showing any symptoms and then have an arrhythmia at a certain point in future
2. Is there a period of time where an arrhythmia is more likely to occur after myocarditis or is it completely luck (e.g.is it more likely to occur within a year or approximate odds are even for the rest of your life)
3. How bad is the myocarditis from a covid infection (rates, deaths etc) in young children (under 12)
4. What is the background rate for myocarditis in the general population (I get varying answers from Google)

In the live stream FDA panel meetings there were repeated questions asking for data Pfizer or anyone had on "sub-clinical" myocarditis. This would be inflammation which either wasn't detected or wasn't causing immediate problems enough to get it checked out at a hospital.

So there is definitely concern about this issue. No data from Pfizer or elsewhere was presented. I can't remember if Pfizer said they didn't have any data, or if they just avoided the question.

[sd_shooter]

In the live stream FDA panel meetings there were repeated questions asking for data Pfizer or anyone had on "sub-clinical" myocarditis. This would be inflammation which either wasn't detected or wasn't causing immediate problems enough to get it checked out at a hospital.

So there is definitely concern about this issue. No data from Pfizer or elsewhere was presented. I can't remember if Pfizer said they didn't have any data, or if they just avoided the question.

The data will take 75 years to produce...

[LBDamned]

Ouch. that's gonna hurt Walls of Text Guy. He wants so desperately to be the expert. And Ball-Boy probably flinched a little bit, too.

I thought the same exact thing!

'cause you know it's true!

*ETA: not about ballgag though... there's no way he is delusional enough to think he's the resident expert.