Vaccinated English adults under 60 are dying at twice the rate of unvaccinated people

[Elgatodeacero]

Vaccinated English adults under 60 are dying at twice the rate of unvaccinated people the same age

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/vaccinated-english-adults-under-60

[hermosabeach]

Wow

[toro1]

Not sure if there is anything to see here. A quick check shows 80% of the UK is fully vaccinated so I would expect the vaccinated to die from all causes at a higher rate than unvaccinated.

Of course if the vaccination rate in the under 60 demographic is much lower, there may be something here.

[toro1]

the key word is rate, not total number.

both sets are per 100,000 of each subset.

Thanks, I did miss that.

[sigfan91]

We need balgor here with his stats and charts to dispute this disinformation.

[Whiterabbit]

[sigfan91]

Ever noticed that 100% of break through infections are from the vaxxed?

[stonefly-2]

What would you expect to see in populations with a low "vax" rate?


Not this I bet.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1758995

[Squatch]

What would you expect to see in populations with a low "vax" rate?





Not this I bet.



http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1758995

The beat whitey tour!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[sbo80]

There might be a correlation effect here though that isn't causation. Younger people who choose to not get vaccinated might be generally healthier, which is why they don't think they need the vax in the first place. And if someone is obese, already taking heart meds, and borderline diabetic, they might be the ones rushing to get the vax. So you end up with skewed samples of people, where the vaxxed are already "unhealthy" to begin with, which has higher rates of death just like it always has. In social science this is called "self selection" and you end up with a "control group" that isn't actually equal to the experimental group.
Statistics like this can be really hard to pull conclusions from. And that article just says "I don't know any reason other than the shot". But they clearly didn't think that hard about it. You end up proving something that was already known. Like "People who take insulin shots have higher death rates than people that don't". That's an obvious result since these people need medicine just to keep from dying. But it isn't the shots that is killing them. I'm not going to dig into the data that was linked in the article, so I'm not claiming my theory is correct, but it took me all of five seconds to think of it, and it is at least plausible.

[Libertarian777]

There might be a correlation effect here though that isn't causation. Younger people who choose to not get vaccinated might be generally healthier, which is why they don't think they need the vax in the first place. And if someone is obese, already taking heart meds, and borderline diabetic, they might be the ones rushing to get the vax. So you end up with skewed samples of people, where the vaxxed are already "unhealthy" to begin with, which has higher rates of death just like it always has. In social science this is called "self selection" and you end up with a "control group" that isn't actually equal to the experimental group.
Statistics like this can be really hard to pull conclusions from. And that article just says "I don't know any reason other than the shot". But they clearly didn't think that hard about it. You end up proving something that was already known. Like "People who take insulin shots have higher death rates than people that don't". That's an obvious result since these people need medicine just to keep from dying. But it isn't the shots that is killing them. I'm not going to dig into the data that was linked in the article, so I'm not claiming my theory is correct, but it took me all of five seconds to think of it, and it is at least plausible.

I don't like Alex Berenson, he appeals to the shock factor for views, although some of his reporting is good.
He's playing with numbers using all under 60.

But regarding your comment about correlation vs causation, you can see the by age category in the raw data here:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1034383/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-46.pdf

It is clear the vaccine does reduce deaths for some groups.
However, it's also very clear the vaccine contributes to spread.

I like to use the 40-49 age group, as 50+ is the cutoff where we see large increases in cases/deaths for the US.

Looking at 40-49:
vaccines DOUBLE the rate of infections (page 23).
While that table purports to show a reduction in deaths from 0.0026% over 3 weeks to 0.0007%, when looking at page 20 somethin interesting emerges.

Presenting to emergency care within 28 days of infection, 534 unvaccinated presented, and 521 vaccinated presented.

Assuming these same folks are hospitalized and are the same cohort of those who die on page 21, 44/534 or 8.2% of UNvaccinated who presented to ER died.
Whereas 41/521 or 7.7% of VACCINATED who presented to ER died.

So basically if you present to the ER, you're just as likely to die vaccinated or not.

The question then is how likely are you to end up in the ER.

Given that a larger percentage of the 40-49 population is vaccinated (78%) than not (22%), its interesting that the absolute number presenting to ER is the same. This would imply however that there's a lower RATE of ER admissions (e.g. 1M x 78% vaccinated = 780k and 521 present; vs 220k unvaccinated and 534 present).

Either way these numbers are at the margin (0.0007% died vs 0.0026%).

Better data would be if they provided comorbidity data.

[balgor]

Ughh you guys are so gullible you'll believe ANYTHING, vaccinated people are older than unvaccinated people, which completely explains the "2X mortality". I'm not sure Berenson has ever written anything involving statistics that wasn't complete BS.



As you can see, the vaccinated subset of the 10-59yr are MUCH older, not at all comparable to the unvaccinated 10-59, and I include the annual background mortality rate for each 5-year age semi-decade from which you can see the major disparities.

Note that the original annual mortality rate for the 10-59yr cohort was 149.5 per 100k, but the older age demographic of the vaccinated subset makes their annual background mortality rate 192.3, and the younger age demographic for the unvaccinated subset makes their annual background mortality rate 79.7.

Whole read here, I'm 100% you'll all go and read it:

https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/what-do-uk-data-say-about-real-world-impact-of-vaccines-on-all-cause-deaths

[Sandspider500]

Seek help little guy, or girl, er they, them.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/compulsive-behaviors

[uzigalil]

Vaccinated English adults under 60 are dying at twice the rate of unvaccinated people the same age

https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/...dults-under-60

More nonesense , Do you just blindly believe people like Alex Berenson who has written and said many things about covid and vaccines, almost all of it being utterly wrong.....................................

[Sandspider500]

Over and over and over and Over and over.