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Doctors Must Be Honest With Parents About Unknown Risks of COVID-19 Emergency Vaccine

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  • TrappedinCalifornia
    Calguns Addict
    • Jan 2018
    • 9003

    Doctors Must Be Honest With Parents About Unknown Risks of COVID-19 Emergency Vaccine

    Posted this morning, it is speaking to some of the things we have discussed in various threads... Doctors must be honest with parents about unknown risks of COVID-19 emergency vaccine. (Note that I did not include the plethora of links. That is something you will have to click on the original article to explore for yourself.)

    ...Small studies can't tell the full story

    It is vital that medical practitioners don't exaggerate or embellish what is known in this moment. Applying pressure or force is not appropriate at this time. Trying to convince someone should take a backseat to trying to inform them, and accepting their decision. A review of the evidence to date helps explain why.

    Emergency use authorization was granted in this age group on the basis of a pivotal trial that is ongoing but has a relatively small sample size (4,700 children). This sample size is too small to document new or known adverse side effects (called safety signals) that have been noted at other ages and at other doses.

    For instance, myocarditis, an inflammation of the heart muscle that can reduce the heart's ability to pump or beat correctly, occurs in about 1 per 5,000 cases of vaccinated boys ages 12-15. If myocarditis occurs in boys ages 5-11 at the same rate as in boys 12-15, a study of this size would not be able to document that. We are flying blind on a side effect that parents need to be informed about.

    Finally, the trial was not designed or able to assess whether vaccinating kids of this age, at this dose, slows asymptomatic disease or spread of SARS-CoV-2 to other household members, or for adults who care for these kids outside of the home. That limitation must be acknowledged.

    The FDA emergency authorization was also supported by its modeling data that makes a compelling case for vaccination of kids. The model estimates how many kids could be hospitalized with the virus, and compares these results against myocarditis that might occur. But in several scenarios outlined by the model, the FDA had to assume the rate of excess myocarditis for an entirely different age group, children 12 to 17, because the rate for children ages 5 to 11 is unknown...

    The FDA conducted these models to show vaccination is worth it. But when the assumptions are coming from other data sources and have some possibility of being over- or underestimates, we need to acknowledge the model's limitations.

    Experts: It's OK to wait

    Looking at this regulatory decision, it is fair to say that there is residual uncertainty, or the uncertainty that remains after the best possible analysis.

    Most likely, vaccinating will end up being a benefit to kids. At the same time, there is a small chance that at least some groups of kids vaccinated may experience adverse events and guidance might be revised for them. Impact on the broader trajectory of the pandemic is highly speculatory because transmission from vaccinated children has not been measured.

    Finally, it must be noted that Moderna, maker of the other mRNA vaccine, announced Oct. 31 that it will delay submitting for emergency use authorization for kids ages 6 to 11, while the FDA investigates myocarditis among adolescents.

    For these reasons, drug safety experts wisely note that it is OK to wait...

    Moreover, waiting does offer alternative benefits. Waiting allows current passive collection systems (for example, unsolicited contributions to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, which is co-managed by the FDA and CDC) to detect vaccine adverse events, and could help clarify whether myocarditis is going to occur and if so, how often...

    ...Based on available data so far, it is reasonable for a parent to decide that moving forward with vaccination is the right thing in this moment. It is also reasonable for a parent to decide to sit back and wait a bit for additional safety data to accumulate...
    Yep. Just another 'obscure opinion' in a non-peer reviewed publication. Nothing to see there. Except, the author isn't just another hack, but qualified to express his opinion, which he also happens to document (again, I didn't include the links) and links to other, qualified individuals who share that 'obscure opinion.' How is he qualified...

    Dr. Vinay Prasad is a hematologist-oncologist and associate professor in the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of California, San Francisco. He runs the VK Prasad Laboratory at UCSF, which studies cancer drugs, health policy, clinical trials and better decision-making.
    That link takes you to a page which includes yet another link to his 311 publications, the majority of which are in peer-reviewed journals or on more than credible sites hosted by actual science organizations.

    Yep. I get it. So, he's published a lot. (I know a number of professors from "publish or perish" departments who produce good stuff and schlock to keep their numbers up.) It doesn't mean his is the only opinion or that there aren't contrary opinions by actual experts. But, as I've stated before, if there weren't a diversity of opinions, there wouldn't be anything to discuss and the matter would be largely 'settled' already.
    Last edited by TrappedinCalifornia; 11-04-2021, 6:46 AM.
  • #2
    Wherryj
    I need a LIFE!!
    • Mar 2010
    • 11085

    This is what I have said from the very beginning as well. Only large and long-term studies can be expected to find anything other than a very common issue. There are times when a medication undergoes rigorous large (for a trial) and long term (again, for a trial) studies and looks very safe, only to have post-marketing data reveal significant and dangerous adverse reactions.

    We essentially skipped the entire phase I-III clinical trials with this process. "Officially" the products have "completed phase III", but these studies usually take 6 to 7 years-or longer. There is a reason for this, because issues often are only seen in long term followup.

    As an anecdotal story, I just saw a pharm rep yesterday. This person now works for a different company, but previously worked for a company's vaccine division. They stated that their approval for an already long established vaccine that had been reformulated (the adult TDaP) took more than ten years because the FDA wanted to assure no issues.

    Strangely, this person now works for one of the current Covid manufacturers (not in vaccines however) and was questioning how it got approved so fast. Yeah, anyone who has ever had experience with medical therapeutics should know that trials must be large enough and long enough to catch even the most common issues, but that it isn't surprising if serious issues are found after approval. We'll be insanely lucky if we don't have issues arise after the almost negligent manner in which these vaccines were "studied" and "approved", especially given the issues that we've had historically with trying to develop ANY sort of coronavirus vaccine.
    "What is a moderate interpretation of the text? Halfway between what it really means and what you'd like it to mean?"
    -Antonin Scalia, Supreme Court Justice
    "Know guns, know peace, know safety. No guns, no peace, no safety.
    I like my guns like the left likes their voters-"undocumented".

    Comment

    • #3
      TrappedinCalifornia
      Calguns Addict
      • Jan 2018
      • 9003

      Originally posted by Wherryj
      This is what I have said from the very beginning as well. Only large and long-term studies can be expected to find anything other than a very common issue. There are times when a medication undergoes rigorous large (for a trial) and long term (again, for a trial) studies and looks very safe, only to have post-marketing data reveal significant and dangerous adverse reactions.

      We essentially skipped the entire phase I-III clinical trials with this process. "Officially" the products have "completed phase III", but these studies usually take 6 to 7 years-or longer. There is a reason for this, because issues often are only seen in long term followup.

      As an anecdotal story, I just saw a pharm rep yesterday. This person now works for a different company, but previously worked for a company's vaccine division. They stated that their approval for an already long established vaccine that had been reformulated (the adult TDaP) took more than ten years because the FDA wanted to assure no issues.

      Strangely, this person now works for one of the current Covid manufacturers (not in vaccines however) and was questioning how it got approved so fast. Yeah, anyone who has ever had experience with medical therapeutics should know that trials must be large enough and long enough to catch even the most common issues, but that it isn't surprising if serious issues are found after approval. We'll be insanely lucky if we don't have issues arise after the almost negligent manner in which these vaccines were "studied" and "approved", especially given the issues that we've had historically with trying to develop ANY sort of coronavirus vaccine.
      As I have said, there is a world of difference between "It's safe." and "it is 'safe' to the 'best of our knowledge' at this point and within 'acceptable parameters' of immune reaction and anticipated 'failures.'"

      Unfortunately, what many fail to grasp is that while there is no, official time line for development/deployment of a vaccine, there is, by default, a certain time element in sufficient, scientific rigor to produce both scientific confidence AND public confidence. One of the reasons is exactly what you speak of, the possibility of discovering adverse effects beyond what has applied to the current crop of 'vaccines' - the short term. While it might be argued that we've entered the 'midterm,' there is no argument for 'long term' study, no matter how minimally one attempts to parse it.

      As I have said on a number of occasions and as the OP article notes (as well as other, scientific literature), there are quite a few 'red flags' which, though maybe not totally ignored, have not been given similar attention to what has been done in the past. While that doesn't, by default, make the 'vaccines' unsafe, it does raise legitimate questions and the more those questions are deflected, disparaged, or minimized as meaningless or irrelevant or not of 'immediate' concern, the result is even more legitimate questions being derived. As I just noted elsewhere, "actual Science" is a provisionally accepted conclusion and must be acted upon on that basis. In the public health sphere, the key word there is "provisionally," not "accepted." Thus, caution becomes the 'standard' and caution demands more than, at best, a minimum.

      Comment

      • #4
        as_rocketman
        CGSSA Leader
        • Jan 2011
        • 3057

        I cited one of Dr. Prasad's videos in my thread on vaccine safety. I like his perspective.

        Like him, I have some questions about low-rate safety events in children. I estimate they'll be answered to my threshold of comfort (99% CI < 0.0001) in only a few weeks after the vaccines are rolled out. Your mileage may vary.
        Riflemen Needed.

        Ask me about Appleseed! Send a PM or see me in the Appleseed subforum.

        Comment

        • #5
          DentonandSasquatchShow
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2018
          • 1343

          Many doctors have drank the Kool-Aid. I'm not sure but I would guess money has something to do with it.

          You know how many kids 5-11 in the US have died of Covid? 608! Sad for sure but not really a call to arms. In 2019, per the CDC, 608 kids 5-11 died in car crashes. Not a peep about doing anything to save children.

          This is all BS and ANYONE who puts that crap in their still developing child's body before we know the long term effects is a horrible parent.
          I will stand for truth even if I stand alone.

          The last time I had faith in the News was when it was with Huey Lewis.

          Comment

          • #6
            TrappedinCalifornia
            Calguns Addict
            • Jan 2018
            • 9003

            Originally posted by as_rocketman
            ...I estimate they'll be answered to my threshold of comfort (99% CI < 0.0001) in only a few weeks after the vaccines are rolled out. Your mileage may vary.
            Yep. YMMV is exactly the basis for the OP article and precisely what is being debated in various threads related to confidence (or the lack thereof) in public policy. Unfortunately, it's not just about your level of comfort (or mine) or the short term for many/most parents. Such is particularly true with regard to children given that they have a lifetime left to live.

            Comment

            • #7
              SPUTTER
              Calguns Addict
              • Jun 2009
              • 7504

              Originally posted by as_rocketman
              I cited one of Dr. Prasad's videos in my thread on vaccine safety. I like his perspective.

              Like him, I have some questions about low-rate safety events in children. I estimate they'll be answered to my threshold of comfort (99% CI < 0.0001) in only a few weeks after the vaccines are rolled out. Your mileage may vary.
              What are you talking about? The Salk institute released a study that proves the spike proteins are toxic and now we have a Swedish study that shows the spike proteins impair DNA repair. Do you understand that this is going to lead to problems in the long-term? We are talking about children here who have their whole lives in front of them.

              Comment

              • #8
                deerdeerdeer
                Veteran Member
                • Sep 2014
                • 2696

                Originally posted by SPUTTER
                What are you talking about? The Salk institute released a study that proves the spike proteins are toxic and now we have a Swedish study that shows the spike proteins impair DNA repair. Do you understand that this is going to lead to problems in the long-term? We are talking about children here who have their whole lives in front of them.
                At this point, I am convinced he works for Pfizer or he is one of those all-in for the Democratic party people (like them Nazi soldiers during that political show), regardless of what he thinks, his masters run his show.
                Last edited by deerdeerdeer; 11-04-2021, 11:53 PM.

                Comment

                • #9
                  as_rocketman
                  CGSSA Leader
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 3057

                  Originally posted by SPUTTER
                  What are you talking about? The Salk institute released a study that proves the spike proteins are toxic and now we have a Swedish study that shows the spike proteins impair DNA repair. Do you understand that this is going to lead to problems in the long-term? We are talking about children here who have their whole lives in front of them.
                  Are you talking about this study or something else?

                  If this study, I have some significant doubts -- there is no reason for the spike protein to be intranuclear in the first place, and their own cited reference indicates that Spike is only in the cytosol. Until this is proven wrong, there's not going to be any significant interaction between Spike and DNA at all, not even in the case of actual infection, let alone vaccination.
                  Riflemen Needed.

                  Ask me about Appleseed! Send a PM or see me in the Appleseed subforum.

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