So let me get this straight. You're twice as likely to get covid if you have the vax

[Deadon]

If you got the Vax

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-9995149/People-received-Moderas-vaccine-early-TWICE-likely-breakthrough-infection.html

[Libertarian777]

Compared to what.

Read the full headline. You're twice as likely to get covid if you were vaccinated last year vs recently.

Not a vax proponent but lying doesn't help our position either

[Deadon]

Compared to what.

Read the full headline. You're twice as likely to get covid if you were vaccinated last year vs recently.

Not a vax proponent but lying doesn't help our position either

Yes because it wears off and you need boosters. How is that any different? It proves it doesn't work.

[stix213]

This sounds like it means Moderna is much weaker against current variants compared to earlier variants. For people who received the vax early, they are looking at the time window shortly following when they received the vax, not a comment on how the vax protection itself wears out over time.

[Deadon]

This sounds like it means Moderna is much weaker against current variants compared to earlier variants. For people who received the vax early, they are looking at the time window shortly following when they received the vax, not a comment on how the vax protection itself wears out over time.

Isreal is Pfizer and they're saying the same.

[theduracellbigd]

The title of your thread is :

So let me get this straight. You're twice as likely to get covid if you have the vax

False

You are twice as likely to get a very rare breakthrough as compared to people who got the vaccine recently.

You are still protected better than unvaxed from serious illness and hospitalization

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

The 125,682 "breakthrough" cases in 38 states represent less than .08 percent of the 164.2 million-plus people fully vaccinated since January.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/breakthrough-covid-cases-least-125-000-fully-vaccinated-americans-have-n1275500

[Number Six]

MD Shawn Baker (Carnivore guy) made good point. The vaccines were made/designed over a year ago, based on the virus variant they knew about back then, so getting the vaccine now is not unlike getting the 2019 flu shot for the 2021-22 flu season. I don't recall any news that they have a newer vaccine, based on the current variants of the virus?

[Deadon]

The title of your thread is :

So let me get this straight. You're twice as likely to get covid if you have the vax

False

You are twice as likely to get a very rare breakthrough as compared to people who got the vaccine recently.

You are still protected better than unvaxed from serious illness and hospitalization

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

The 125,682 "breakthrough" cases in 38 states represent less than .08 percent of the 164.2 million-plus people fully vaccinated since January.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/healt...-have-n1275500

Hey I'm just posting what the vaccine maker is saying..

Moderna says people who received its Covid vaccine last year are nearly TWICE as likely to get a breakthrough infection compared to those who got the shot recently

Very rare? Is that what's happening in Israel and Singapore? Very rare breakthrough cases?
So for maybe 5 months you're protected then you need a booster right? But if you have antibodies that have shown to be better than the Vax it doesn't count.

Let me guess, after everything we've seen I bet you trust those numbers in those links?

[wpage]

Depends...

[joe_gman]

a vaxxed person that's infected has 251 times the viral load that an unvaxxed infected person has

Where did you get those numbers?
Every scientific article that I have read was that with the Delta Variant, the viral loads of infected un-vaccinated and vaccinated breakthrough cases were basically the same.

[deerdeerdeer]

Y'all still read the news still, last time I heard it was fake.

Let me tell you if I catch it I got.a 100% chance of getting it and if I don't ever get it, I got 0%.... Science, these ratios and numbers gathered by scientist in a 1 year timeframe without being peer-reviewed by "science" , let's forget all that...

[Wherryj]

Compared to what.

Read the full headline. You're twice as likely to get covid if you were vaccinated last year vs recently.

Not a vax proponent but lying doesn't help our position either

True, and even if this is the case, we can never prove that one is more likely to contract Covid after the vaccine because the placebo groups were intentionally destroyed. The best we could ever do is compare vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated and see if there's a trend that suggests doing a blinded study.

[theduracellbigd]

Yes because it wears off and you need boosters. How is that any different? It proves it doesn't work.

Deadon, did you graduate high school?

[theduracellbigd]

Compared to what.

Read the full headline. You're twice as likely to get covid if you were vaccinated last year vs recently.

Not a vax proponent but lying doesn't help our position either

Maybe he is not trying to lie, just SPED or never graduated high school. Either way he is really misrepresenting the article.

[Libertarian777]

True, and even if this is the case, we can never prove that one is more likely to contract Covid after the vaccine because the placebo groups were intentionally destroyed. The best we could ever do is compare vaccinated vs. non-vaccinated and see if there's a trend that suggests doing a blinded study.

I've covered this before, they vaccinated the control group so there's no long term study hence we can't track this vaccine's efficacy

That being said, we're moving out of pandemic to ENdemic, so infection rates are largely irrelevant, the chance is that you will eventually get it, but likely a less virulent strain. (Hence lockdowns etc are also irrelevant. We just have to manage how fast the population contracts it, Covid ZERO is a stupid unrealistic policy).

Vaccine's still not needed for anyone under 50. (40-49 age group for unvaccinated... last group under 50, risk of death is 0.04%, vaccine reduces to 0.003%; there's a ton of other things that will kill you before covid).

Hey I'm just posting what the vaccine maker is saying..

Very rare? Is that what's happening in Israel and Singapore? Very rare breakthrough cases?
So for maybe 5 months you're protected then you need a booster right? But if you have antibodies that have shown to be better than the Vax it doesn't count.

Let me guess, after everything we've seen I bet you trust those numbers in those links?

hi strawman, let me burn down the argument that no one was making...

Article was not discussing vaccinated vs unvaccinated, or naturally immune to vaccinated (the flaw in your logic, even though natural immunity is stronger, it has a survivorship bias aspect... if you didn't die from Covid, obviously your natural immunity is stronger... or you'd be dead and not compared to vaccinated).

you said

So let me get this straight. You're twice as likely to get covid if you have the vax

that is NOT what the article says. It's not IF you got the vax, its WHEN you got the vax. They are comparing people who have the vax recently vs those who had it in December/Jan.

They are NOT comparing UNvaccinated to vaccinated.

Yes there are breakthroughs, yes there are a lot, yes there are serious adverse events, yes vaccinated still die, yes vaccines aren't 100% or 95%, but hospitalized and case fatality rates are definitely lower (FOR OLDER folks) who were vaccinated

The UK data was pretty clear on vaccinated vs unvaccinated (under 50 don't need the vaccine), taking population size into account, vaccinated are at lower risk of death than unvaccinated (most visible in over 50).