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Israel, Pfizer and Delta...a walk through the stats.

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  • elSquid
    In Memoriam
    • Aug 2007
    • 11844

    Israel, Pfizer and Delta...a walk through the stats.

    I thought that this was an interesting take on the subject.

    Israeli data: How can efficacy vs. severe disease be strong when 60% of hospitalized are vaccinated?



    One disturbing result that has been repeated about several locations is that a high proportion of patients hospitalized for COVID-19 are vaccinated. For example, we can see from data from the the Israeli government data dashboard that nearly 60% of all patients currently hospitalized for COVID-19 (as of August 15, 2021) are vaccinated (downloaded data set and details are found at the bottom of this post). Out of 515 patients currently hospitalized with severe cases in Israel, 301 (58.4%) of these cases were fully vaccinated, meaning two doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

    From this type of result in various places, I have seen tweets suggesting vaccines don't work or have lost their efficacy vs. severe disease, and I have seen other articles quote this type of figure as further evidence for the reduction of effectiveness of the vaccines in trying to justify 3rd shot boosters.

    However, while these numbers are true, to quote them as evidence for low vaccine efficacy is wrong and misleading. Sometimes, with observational data there is confounding of multiple factors that can make it easy to misinterpret simple percentages like this, and the current vaccination situation in Israel brings a perfect storm of confounding factors that lead to confusion if not thought through carefully.

    In particular, the key factors here that contribute to this confusion are:

    1) High vaccination rates in the country (nearly 80% of all residents >12yr)

    2) Age disparity in vaccinations, including

    3) Nearly all older people being vaccinated (>90% of residents >50yr) and

    4) The vast majority of unvaccinated being younger people (>85% of unvaccinated <50yr)

    5) Older people are orders of magnitude more likely to be hospitalized with a respiratory virus than young people (residents >50yr are >20x more likely to have hospitalized serious infections than residents <50yr, and residents 90+ are >1600x more likely to have hospitalized serious infections than residents 12-15yr)

    After accounting for the vaccination rates and stratifying by age groups, from these same data we can see that the vaccines retain high efficacy (85-95%) vs. severe disease, showing that when it comes to preventing severe disease, the Pfizer vaccine is still performing very well vs. Delta, even in Israel from whence the most concerning data have arisen.



    ( Much more at link. Charts too! )

    He step-by-step walks through the data and provides links for such. Quite worthwhile to give it a skim.

    The key point is to stratify data by age, otherwise one can fall to something called "Simpson's paradox".

    And before the "anti-covid-vaxxers" start the attack ( ), note that this author has another web page:

    Overwhelming evidence now that previously infected have robust immune protection against reinfection



    -- Michael
  • #2
    Libertarian777
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2010
    • 576

    Sooo, literally supports the position a lot have been saying for a long time.

    Vaccinate >65 and those with co morbidities.
    Leave the kids alone.
    18-50... Optional, recommended if u have multiple comorbidities.

    Comment

    • #3
      elSquid
      In Memoriam
      • Aug 2007
      • 11844

      Originally posted by Libertarian777
      Sooo, literally supports the position a lot have been saying for a long time.

      Vaccinate >65 and those with co morbidities.
      Leave the kids alone.
      18-50... Optional, recommended if u have multiple comorbidities.

      Comment

      • #4
        sd_shooter
        I need a LIFE!!
        • Dec 2008
        • 13669

        Wait the vax isn't 95% effective? Third vax now needed?

        Is the effect cumulative? A fourth vax would become even more robust?

        Comment

        • #5
          stix213
          AKA: Joe Censored
          CGN Contributor - Lifetime
          • Apr 2009
          • 18998

          Originally posted by sd_shooter
          Wait the vax isn't 95% effective? Third vax now needed?

          Is the effect cumulative? A fourth vax would become even more robust?

          Why not 5 then?

          Comment

          • #6
            sigfan91
            I need a LIFE!!
            • Jun 2009
            • 10559

            Originally posted by stix213
            Why not 5 then?
            My plan was to skip the first 4 and go straight to the 5th shot.

            Comment

            • #7
              OlderThanDirt
              FUBAR
              CGN Contributor - Lifetime
              • Jun 2009
              • 5817

              Originally posted by Libertarian777
              Sooo, literally supports the position a lot have been saying for a long time.

              Vaccinate >65 and those with co morbidities.
              Leave the kids alone.
              18-50... Optional, recommended if u have multiple comorbidities.
              Norway has documented that the most vulnerable elderly population should not be vaccinated due to a large number of deaths from the vaccine. I have firsthand experience watching someone die from the vaccine.
              We know they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying, but they are still lying. ~ Solzhenitsyn
              Thermidorian Reaction . . Prepare for it.

              Comment

              • #8
                Marthor
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2011
                • 1644

                A major study conducted by Israeli researchers into natural immunity has found that immunity acquired via infection from Covid-19 is superior to immunity from the Pfizer vaccine. Researchers at Maccabi Healthcare and Tel Aviv University compared the outcomes of over 76,000 Israelis in three groups: the doubly vaccinated (with the Pfizer vaccine), the previously infected [...]Read More...


                Very large study done in israel...

                Bottomline is that Natural Immunity is many times superior to the shot.
                Stronger and lasts longer too.
                National Rifle Association (NRA) Life Patriot Endowment Member
                Single Action Shooting Society (SASS) Member
                Concealed Handgun License
                Originally posted by Marthor
                You have been scammed bigly. Epic hype. Time to snap out. YW

                Comment

                • #9
                  gdr_11
                  Veteran Member
                  • Feb 2008
                  • 2530

                  Israeli Covid Studies

                  The following three reports are excellent examples of how the facts are being manipulated such that no one knows what to believe. Israel has probably the highest vaccination rate in the world so their studies should be taken seriously by everyone, but how do you sort out these three media reports?

                  - https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...udy-finds.html

                  - https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/25/healt...son/index.html

                  - https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/e...cines-stopping

                  The first shows that 60% of hospitalized Covid patients in Israel had been previously vaccinated.

                  The second claims that the Israelis demonstrate that vaccination is much more effective and preferable than infection/immunity

                  The third shows that vaccinated people in Israel are catching the virus at a rate 13X that of unvaccinated people who had had it once.

                  The first and third articles combine into laying out the dilemma that faces Israel. They have the highest vaccination rate in the world but also one of the highest infection rates which probably means that they have made things worse by vaccinating so many of their population.

                  Bottom line is that, after a year and a half, the medical community around the world has zero clue as to what is really going on and how to deal with it.
                  In an emergency, always dial 1911.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Aeneas
                    Senior Member
                    • Feb 2014
                    • 1127

                    If you're one of the proles, you just need to use doublethink to reconcile the messages that may lead you astray from the party narrative.

                    Many in the medical community know what's going on and how to deal with it. Some are sincere and are doing a good job. There are also those who made their priorities clear with the "Stay home because we can't!" Instagram posts, support of mask mandates and lockdowns, but then high fiving the BLM rioters as they walked by, and also signing a statement that racism is a public health crisis so the mass gatherings for that are ok.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      sd_shooter
                      I need a LIFE!!
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 13669

                      Originally posted by gdr_11
                      <snip>
                      Bottom line is that, after a year and a half, the medical community around the world has zero clue as to what is really going on and how to deal with it.
                      And that's why we shouldn't listen to them when they want to mandate poisonous injections.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Garand Hunter
                        Veteran Member
                        • Feb 2016
                        • 2772

                        Watch.org has good poop frequently about vaxxed folks getting the bug more than once and DEAD vaxxed people, in Israel.

                        Psalm 1

                        Comment

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