Editorial: Could COVID-19 Vaccines Be Mandated? Federal Law Needs Clarification

[TrappedinCalifornia]

This may have already been posted, somewhere, on this board, but I found it an interesting exercise in that it ties together several threads we have had...

Editorial: Could COVID-19 vaccines be mandated? Federal law needs clarification

The part to watch for is Government "coercion" of private business to enforce a 'mandate' similar to how they did with mask wearing. Likewise, the editorial doesn't address the court challenges which would inevitably follow any Legislative 'clarifications.' In short, it's the same thing I said about Governors and "emergency powers;" i.e., they can get away with whatever they can enforce with the powers they have. Thus, up to a point, they can mandate, but they are still reliant upon compliance.

[ibanezfoo]

Whats that saying about the more you clinch your fist the more slips through your fingers?

[five.five-six]

Roberts will rule vaccines are mandatory.

[five.five-six]

Roberts will rule is not mandatory, but government can restrict your right to travel work eat drink leave your house etc, until you're vaccinated, cos that's not in the constitution.

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[sbo80]

I think they'll have a harder time mandating it across the board while it's not actually approved, but they might in certain areas where they have normally more discretion - like the FAA mandating you have it to fly on aircraft. This is also why I still think we're in a catch-22, where since they've pushed it so hard, and especially if they start mandating it, it won't matter what the formal process says or finds, they will have no choice but to "approve" the vaccine in the end. They could discover (usually too high for approval) rates of blood clots or cancers due to the vaccine, and they'd still wrangle some argument why they'll approve it anyway. So the approval is all but assured.

[hermosabeach]

If this was a disease like say - the measles- where the vaccine made you have immunity- it would be a better argument- get vaccinated as we are not going to let healthcare / hospitals treat people with measles.


But these shots don’t give you immunity

Vaccines give immunity


So these shots - some say - are not a true vaccine

[WWDHD?]

Why have they not made it mandatory in the US Military? I've read there's roughly half a million people in the military spread all over the world- wouldn't this vaccine be a prudent measure to preserve our fighting force from being sidelined by this virus? If nothing else- wouldn't it be setting a good example to the rest of us hold outs that our military is vaccinated with no problems? They inject all kinds of vaccines into our troops whenever they get sent somewhere in the world on deployment- why not one of these EUA vaccines?

[Scota4570]

"They inject all kinds of vaccines into our troops whenever they get sent somewhere in the world on deployment-"

Yep and that is how they created "gulf war syndrome"

The most cited precedent for mandatory vaccines is the 1905 case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. It was about small pox which had a 30% death rate. Covid had a 0.2% for those who get it, and only 20% of the population has/will actually get it. The Jacobson case does not apply, IMHO.

The pandemic will be over shortly. When it is gone it will be unreasonable to insist on inoculations. At that point it will appear to have sinister motivations to require the shot.

For now, it appears that the immunization id cards are a cheap piece of cardstock with hand written information. No patient ID number is being entered on the cards. Your medical records are confidential under HIPPA. The only entities requiring to see it are private businesses. They will not have a way to look you up on a data base. Many people are laminating the cards. Many take a photo of it with their phone instead of carrying the card. This will make detecting forgery cards impossible.

I predict that in 6-months it will all go away, as it should.

[WWDHD?]

"They inject all kinds of vaccines into our troops whenever they get sent somewhere in the world on deployment-"

Yep and that is how they created "gulf war syndrome"

The most cited precedent for mandatory vaccines is the 1905 case Jacobson v. Massachusetts. It was about small pox which had a 30% death rate. Covid had a 0.2% for those who get it, and only 20% of the population has/will actually get it. The Jacobson case does not apply, IMHO.

The pandemic will be over shortly. When it is gone it will be unreasonable to insist on inoculations. At that point it will appear to have sinister motivations to require the shot.

For now, it appears that the immunization id cards are a cheap piece of cardstock with hand written information. No patient ID number is being entered on the cards. Your medical records are confidential under HIPPA. The only entities requiring to see it are private businesses. They will not have a way to look you up on a data base. Many people are laminating the cards. Many take a photo of it with their phone instead of carrying the card. This will make enforcement impossible.

I predict that in 6-months it will all go away, as it should.

I think Florida banned these "Vaccine Passports" today or are very close to it. I'm hoping other Free"er" states will do the same making the issue moot. I don't see how this will be accepted universally in the US if several states ban the whole stupid idea but - who knows.

[SanDiego619]

They can mandate whatever they want, I am never getting a vaccine for a mild virus.

[TrappedinCalifornia]

...The pandemic will be over shortly. When it is gone it will be unreasonable to insist on inoculations. At that point it will appear to have sinister motivations to require the shot.

For now, it appears that the immunization id cards are a cheap piece of cardstock with hand written information. No patient ID number is being entered on the cards. Your medical records are confidential under HIPPA. The only entities requiring to see it are private businesses. They will not have a way to look you up on a data base. Many people are laminating the cards. Many take a photo of it with their phone instead of carrying the card. This will make detecting forgery cards impossible.

I predict that in 6-months it will all go away, as it should.

Since when has "unreasonable" been a standard which concerned those in power?

I suspect any decent attorney would not only point to the EUA status of the vaccines, they would look to what you are saying...

• Lack of consistency in inoculation standards/availability.
• Lack of universal, consistent, and 'secure' documentation.
• HIPPA Laws regarding privacy.

In and of themselves, those aren't going to be easy hurdles to overcome and, if nothing else, would not be 'immediate' in their solutions for the public at large. Such a lack of 'immediacy' would also impact the case for making it 'mandatory' and would further enhance the argument regarding "emergency use authorization" in terms of...

• How long does an "emergency" last?
• If we can 'wait' for official authorization, then what's the 'emergency' demanding 'mandatory' status?

Naturally, all of this begs a question... "Who is making the decisions?"

A perception of "unreasonable" and "sinister motives" would not necessarily discourage a public health official whose priority is the public's health rather than perceptions among voters.

If it is a politician, be it Joe Biden or Kamala Harris or Senators/Representatives, then public perception would be a key factor. Just bear in mind that it will be set against the perception of those who demand it be made mandatory; be in members of the public still motivated by fear of the virus or special interest groups or similar. What does the latest poll of voters say? All long would they have to 'spin' it before the next election? What 'false flag' or legitimate events... Well... A whole lot of "What if's?" would be involved.

I'm with you if it's up to the politicians. There will be a good deal of Sturm und Drang, appointing of commissions to 'study' the issue, meetings with scientists, lawyers, and public officials testifying as to the necessity or Constitutionality or consequences, et al. But, once the public largely feels "it's over," there will be a decided unwillingness on the part of politicians to keep "pushing it" and it will, mostly, taper off and be consigned to the History books.

If it's up to the public health officials, the whole thing will be 'lost' in the endless, largely binary, technical debates. Aside from the 'politics' involved over the last year-plus, the actual Science doesn't even entirely 'agree' in terms of the 'best' practices. What we've seen insofar as "follow the science" hasn't been actual Science, but "science" politicized.

If the conspiracy theorists are right and something/someone else is behind all of this... Well...

[Creeping Incrementalism]

I predict that in 6-months it will all go away, as it should.

This is my prediction and hope also. Every lockdown and restriction has been dependent on the average person's fear to be effective. "Data" and "Science" as a rationale is just lame excuse to back up whatever your decision is -- the same statistical situation of declining rates + a low overall rate also existed in late Summer and late Fall, yet decisions about schools and indoor & outdoor events were different then than now, even when most of the population now is NOT fully vaccinated.

No government or business will want to deal with the hassle of vaccinations which is all it will be once the people are no longer scared.

[jarhead714]

[OlderThanDirt]

Come and give it.

[Jwalt]

RE: Jacobson v. Massachusetts

The vaccine was also *very* well known and tested by that point, and was almost perfectly safe.

Just as importantly - the penalty for not taking it was a five dollar fine. Now, sure, that's about 150 bucks today, but still was basically nominal.