I've narrowed it down. Phizer or J.&J.

[as_rocketman]

This is the problem:

Over-educated people have fallen for the hoax and, because they have been told their whole lives that they are so superior, their hubris will never allow them to admit their folly. They will triple down on this because the undesirables cannot be shown to have been right all along.

No. Assumes facts not in evidence -- it isn't a hoax just because you think it is. When challenged, those believing it is a hoax have literally nothing in support. Been watching this drama play out for over a year now.

--

The vaccinations can cause clots in any part of the body. Not just the brain.

Are you honestly telling me you think that reporting on people that may have died from a clot, did die from a clot, did not die from a clot, etc has all been reported? And the dots have been connected to the vaccine, and accounted for? You're completely nuts.

Your ability to misunderstand is legendary. This insight into your thinking process, however, gives me a clue. I'm not even going to try to untangle the above.

What I'm saying is that (1) vaccinations are being scrupulously recorded; (2) deaths from this kind of clot, specifically cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, are quite rare (3-4 / million / year; notably, about the same magnitude as the signal we're considering), nearly always caught due to strong presentation, and will also be rigorously recorded; (3) correlation between the two is simple. I assume you didn't listen to Dr. Griffin, linked above, who goes over the connection in more detail.

Sure, vaccines can cause other clots. So can placebo. Not really relevant to this discussion.

You don't understand my position. Having a FDA stamp does not mean it's perfect. It's still imperfect. Not having that stamp means it's less than an imperfect FDA stamp.

this is where the value of NOT is important

You're right, I don't understand your position. Why would you even care about an imperfect FDA stamp? You're not getting shot even if it were blessed by the Pope. Why bring it up at all?

--

Why? I just don't get it. If you are high risk, maybe that's a good reason to get the shot. If you are not high risk what is the point?

As more and more people get the shot, along with the people who've had COVID recovering with anti-bodies. Heard immunity will reduce your chances of becoming very sick to near zero. It's already very very low.

There is so much Gov. and Media fear mongering going on. It would be comical if it weren't so dangerous to lie to the public like this.

You cannot trust the Government anymore, and you can trust the Media even less.

I'll wait and see what happens.

Go right ahead. I've laid out my reasoning, with sources, none of which are .gov in nature. You can make your own decision. I merely take note when others resort to fake statistics, specious reasoning, or conspiracy theories to justify their decisions or question others.

[SmokeTheClay]

What I'm saying is that (1) vaccinations are being scrupulously recorded; (2) deaths from this kind of clot, specifically cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, are quite rare (3-4 / million / year; notably, about the same magnitude as the signal we're considering), nearly always caught due to strong presentation, and will also be rigorously recorded; (3) correlation between the two is simple.

You're either being simple or dishonest here. cerebral venous sinus thrombosis is NOT the only kind of blood clot a person can get from the vaccine. These are just some of the most obvious which makes your case that we DO have all the data around who has had a blood clot from the vaccine even more insane.

Clinical trials showed that the vaccine group ended up with a clot more often than the control group. It's probably very possible the people tested were not a good sample of the US population.

The fact that you are cherry picking AND assuming that we can only belive that cerebral venous sinus thrombosis are the only clots occurring is stupid,, and once again disingenuous.

Sure, vaccines can cause other clots. So can placebo. Not really relevant to this discussion.

It's extremely relevant and the fact that you want to omit other clots from this conversation about Blood Clots just goes to show how obviously deceitful you are trying to be in this discussion.

You're right, I don't understand your position. Why would you even care about an imperfect FDA stamp? You're not getting shot even if it were blessed by the Pope. Why bring it up at all?

It's spelled out very clearly above. If you don't understand it, I'm fine with you not getting it.

[as_rocketman]

You're either being simple or dishonest here. cerebral venous sinus thrombosis is NOT the only kind of blood clot a person can get from the vaccine. These are just some of the most obvious which makes your case that we DO have all the data around who has had a blood clot from the vaccine even more insane.

No, you're being simple. CVST is the only kind of blood clot being considered because it's the only one showing a possible danger. The Janssen pause isn't based on other reports of clotting, as those haven't resulted in anything significant. I have no idea why you're conflating CVST with clotting in general, except to pretend to have some kind of point.

Clinical trials showed that the vaccine group ended up with a clot more often than the control group. It's probably very possible the people tested were not a good sample of the US population.

"Probably very possible" == "probable." But no, not really. The level of significance was almost nil, as there were 15 events in the vaccinated group, and 10 in the placebo. You can read the detailed report here, which also goes into the test group composition on Table 9. While getting good statistics on minority populations sometimes takes work, I might add that the issue of concern is manifest in caucasian females age 30-49, who were well represented in the study, so I'll just call that another red herring on your part.

The fact that you are cherry picking AND assuming that we can only belive that cerebral venous sinus thrombosis are the only clots occurring is stupid,, and once again disingenuous.

ah, that's your angle. No, you made that conflation. I was referring to the reported severe events, not any and all incidents of clotting. You're raging at a strawman again. Seems to be a habit for you.

It's extremely relevant and the fact that you want to omit other clots from this conversation about Blood Clots just goes to show how obviously deceitful you are trying to be in this discussion.

It's a discussion about severe side effects. You want to talk about thrombosis in general, have at it.

It's spelled out very clearly above. If you don't understand it, I'm fine with you not getting it.

"No, it's YOU who doesn't understand!!" Since you're talking about my beliefs, you should ask if you don't understand, not assume you know the answer better than I do. Seriously, this is preschool level stuff.

[SPUTTER]

The blood clots means it's working!
My prediction is this particular one will either get pulled or will be discontinued because it's unpopular. So congratulations to those that got it, you got yourself a rare collectors edition vaccine.

[SmokeTheClay]

No, you're being simple. CVST is the only kind of blood clot being considered because it's the only one showing a possible danger. The Janssen pause isn't based on other reports of clotting, as those haven't resulted in anything significant. I have no idea why you're conflating CVST with clotting in general, except to pretend to have some kind of point.



"Probably very possible" == "probable." But no, not really. The level of significance was almost nil, as there were 15 events in the vaccinated group, and 10 in the placebo. You can read the detailed report here, which also goes into the test group composition on Table 9. While getting good statistics on minority populations sometimes takes work, I might add that the issue of concern is manifest in caucasian females age 30-49, who were well represented in the study, so I'll just call that another red herring on your part.



ah, that's your angle. No, you made that conflation. I was referring to the reported severe events, not any and all incidents of clotting. You're raging at a strawman again. Seems to be a habit for you.

Lots of words, and just as much BS. I watched the back to the future episodes this weekend and you remind me of Biff driving into the manure trucks.

Since the announcement, the Food and Drug Administration has been studying , the people said. Yet officials are growing more persuaded, the people added, that the six total cases reported so far are related to the shot.
[/b]

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/j-j-covid-19-vaccine-was-paused-over-blood-clot-treatment-concerns-11618777554

What the above means is that your last bunch of posts about knowing everything is WRONG...again. AND discussing clots other than brain blood clotting is on topic, but clearly something you want to hide your head in the sand about.

It's a discussion about severe side effects. You want to talk about thrombosis in general, have at it.

See above

You don't understand my position. Having a FDA stamp does not mean it's perfect. It's still imperfect. Not having that stamp means it's less than an imperfect FDA stamp.

this is where the value of NOT is important

"No, it's YOU who doesn't understand!!" Since you're talking about my beliefs, you should ask if you don't understand, not assume you know the answer better than I do. Seriously, this is preschool level stuff.

My positions, are my beliefs. Not yours. Are you high?

[as_rocketman]

Lots of words, and just as much BS. I watched the back to the future episodes this weekend and you remind me of Biff driving into the manure trucks.

https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/j-j-covid-19-vaccine-was-paused-over-blood-clot-treatment-concerns-11618777554

What the above means is that your last bunch of posts about knowing everything is WRONG...again. AND discussing clots other than brain blood clotting is on topic, but clearly something you want to hide your head in the sand about.

It's been some time since I've seen anyone so excited about slam-dunking on a strawman.

Why don't you just calm down, towel off, and figure out exactly what it is you think I'm guilty of, and then try again.

[SPUTTER]

1618808409605.jpg

Just a coincidence though.

[SmokeTheClay]

It's been some time since I've seen anyone so excited about slam-dunking on a strawman.

Why don't you just calm down, towel off, and figure out exactly what it is you think I'm guilty of, and then try again.

Nope. You don't get to cut the scope down to one type of blood clot. Ignoring other types of blood clots in this discussion is 100% dishonest

[SmokeTheClay]

[ATTACH]1006676[/ATTACH]

Just a coincidence though.

Very sad, promising life.

So if he didn't have a blood clot in his brain then rocket doesn't want to hear about it

[as_rocketman]

Nope. You don't get to cut the scope down to one type of blood clot. Ignoring other types of blood clots in this discussion is 100% dishonest

I'm "100% dishonest" because you think the scope of the discussion should be all blood clots.

I'm pretty sure I get to decide what I was talking about. It was this: The reason behind the Janssen vaccine pause. That decision was made on the basis of reported CVST, and no others.

There is actually a reason why other clotting reports don't apply here:

Treatment of this specific type of blood clot is different from the treatment that might typically be administered. Usually, an anticoagulant drug called heparin is used to treat blood clots. In this setting, administration of heparin may be dangerous, and alternative treatments need to be given.

[...] This is important, in part, to ensure that the health care provider community is aware of the potential for these adverse events and can plan for proper recognition and management due to the unique treatment required with this type of blood clot.

Source

Please try to learn something -- anything. Nobody cares about you putting up points on your own personal scoreboard.

[CartridgeCalls]

Neither for me.

[UCT]

I'm "100% dishonest" because you think the scope of the discussion should be all blood clots.

I'm pretty sure I get to decide what I was talking about. It was this: The reason behind the Janssen vaccine pause. That decision was made on the basis of reported CVST, and no others.

There is actually a reason why other clotting reports don't apply here:


Source

Please try to learn something -- anything. Nobody cares about you putting up points on your own personal scoreboard.

The reason heparin is not given is because of the presence of thrombocytopenia in every case involving the Janssen vaccine. Heparin can cause or aggravate existing thrombocytopenia. Pretty much every doctor knows this and doesn't need to be told.

Thrombocytopenia has also been observed as an adverse reaction in the RNA vaccines too. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8014568/ Autoimmune thrombocytopenia can require lifelong steroid treatment and may eventually result in kidney failure.

[SPUTTER]

Very sad, promising life.

So if he didn't have a blood clot in his brain then rocket doesn't want to hear about it

He's displaying cognitive dissonance and as we begin to learn more in the future, it will only get worse.

[Sousuke]

Just reporting back that I am still alive, though the AstraZenica vaccine did hit me pretty hard.

I ran a temp of 38.7 C (about 101.5) for a night and then 37.5 C yesterday. Couldn't get out of bed for about 36 hours or so. Feeling much better this afternoon. No headache.

(I've also had coffee and beer for the first time since my vaccine...so maybe it was just withdraw )

[SmokeTheClay]

He's displaying cognitive dissonance and as we begin to learn more in the future, it will only get worse.

Cognitive dissonance LARPER