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Danish study on Covid and Masks

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  • krb
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2016
    • 1086

    Danish study on Covid and Masks

    Hi. Some people were interested.

    I just read it.

    A few things I noticed:

    -There is a variety of outcomes measured - swab test, antibodies, and PCR. So because different subjects are having different tests, the difference in test accuracy could contribute to differences in results.

    -They did a power study for how big a group they need to study. To be able to determine the outcome they were measuring they needed 4636 subjects. 4862 completed the study so if there were a significant difference they had enough subjects to find it. They also included intention to treat analysis.

    -Largely everyone wore the masks as recommended or predominantly as recommended.

    -The primary outcome (Covid infection) occurred in 42 participants (1.8%) in the mask group and 53 (2.1%) in the control group. In an intention-to-treat analysis, the between-group difference was −0.3 percentage point (CI, −1.2 to 0.4 percentage point; P = 0.38) (odds ratio [OR], 0.82 [CI, 0.54 to 1.23]; P = 0.33) in favor of the mask group. When this analysis was repeated with multiple imputation for missing data due to loss to follow-up, it yielded similar results (OR, 0.81 [CI, 0.53 to 1.23]; P = 0.32).

    What the statistics mean is as follows:

    CI means 95% confidence interval. This means statistically there is a 90% chance that when you eliminate noise from the statistics the actual value is between this and that. So you might say 1% of mask wearers got it at 2% of non-mask wearers got it. Wow. So masks work. But when you try to filter out the statistic noise, the CI for masks might be 0-2 and for non-masks 1-3%, so as the intervals or confidence bars overlap, it means there is really no real difference between the groups.

    In this case with the CI, they conclude that masks either help make it better or actually make it worse - despite a large study, they find no statistically significant difference between the groups.

    The OR is the odds ratio. And odds ratio of 1 means the intervention results in no difference between the group. An odds ratio < 1 means the intervention results in decreased incidence and > 1 means greater incidence. Eg OR 0.5 means 50% less and 2.0 means double.

    The OR measured is 0.82 which means the masks are protective. However the CI for the OR is 0.54-1.23 which means that they cannot say statistically it is protective. Rather they can say the OR might be as low as 0.54 (it's really protective) but could be as high as 1.23 (it's really harmful).

    The long and short of it is, they got a large group of people, large enough to detect a difference between the groups, but could detect no statistically significant protective effect for people in the mask group.

    -The main limitation of the study is that some results come from people using home antibody tests and they report if they are positive or negative. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me but that is what some who believe in masks describe as a flaw.

    Seems good to me, but I didn't believe in masks before.
  • #2
    krb
    Senior Member
    • Jun 2016
    • 1086

    Oh - for those who want to read the whole paper...

    Comment

    • #3
      Ben R
      Member
      • Apr 2016
      • 256

      IMO the masks are possibly beneficial to others. It doesn’t prevent the wearer from getting ill, it reduces the probability of the wearer spreading a respiratory virus.

      Comment

      • #4
        ezaircon4jc
        Senior Member
        • Jul 2014
        • 604

        Also increases the possibility of the wearer infecting themselves. Instead of someone asymptomatic exhaling minute amounts of the virus, the virus builds-up in the mask and the wearer breathes in an ever larger dose of the virus making someone with a minor dose of the virus a hospitalized case.

        That's if masks actually work...

        On a side note, there was a study out of Japan a few months ago (sorry no link yet) stating those shields are totally useless.

        Comment

        • #5
          krb
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2016
          • 1086

          I think you can argue theory either way but at the end of the day it comes down to "what do scientific studies say?" And they are not conclusive.

          Comment

          • #6
            SloChicken
            Veteran Member
            • Jul 2012
            • 4533

            I love a good danish
            sigpic

            Originally Posted by Cali-Shooter
            To me, it was a fist-fight, except that I did not counter-attack.

            Comment

            • #7
              2shotjoe
              CGN/CGSSA Contributor
              CGN Contributor
              • Feb 2011
              • 26491

              my team and myself have been working in hospitals and medical buildings with covid-19. some of us have got the covid and became ill, not super serious but most of the time like a strong flu. we wear masks and face shields, always use hand sanitizer. we still got it.

              we're not considered exposed unless within 6 feet for 15 minutes.

              masks don't work in my none-medical experience these last few months.

              i'll note that everyone that got sick took a plane over here.
              Last edited by 2shotjoe; 12-23-2020, 8:08 PM.
              Originally posted by Kestryll
              ..you're kind of a sad excuse for an attorney...
              Originally posted by Libertarian777
              ...Don't pick either side....

              Comment

              • #8
                compulsivegunbuyer
                Veteran Member
                • Feb 2007
                • 2566

                Originally posted by ezaircon4jc
                Also increases the possibility of the wearer infecting themselves. Instead of someone asymptomatic exhaling minute amounts of the virus, the virus builds-up in the mask and the wearer breathes in an ever larger dose of the virus making someone with a minor dose of the virus a hospitalized case.

                That's if masks actually work...

                On a side note, there was a study out of Japan a few months ago (sorry no link yet) stating those shields are totally useless.
                You got proof of that?

                Comment

                • #9
                  blkoutdb
                  Member
                  • Nov 2019
                  • 207

                  Originally posted by ezaircon4jc
                  Also increases the possibility of the wearer infecting themselves. Instead of someone asymptomatic exhaling minute amounts of the virus, the virus builds-up in the mask and the wearer breathes in an ever larger dose of the virus making someone with a minor dose of the virus a hospitalized case.

                  That's if masks actually work...

                  On a side note, there was a study out of Japan a few months ago (sorry no link yet) stating those shields are totally useless.
                  You could not use the same mask everyday or wash it daily too.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    duenor
                    Vendor/Retailer
                    • Mar 2007
                    • 4617

                    Or just wear better quality gear. People don't mind blowing several hundred dollars on sneakers for crying out loud, yet if you suggest they wear something better than a 15 cent dust mask they start going, "Oh, I don't know... seems like a lot to spend and who knows if it's even that useful.... nah, I probably don't need it... I always turn my head when people sneeze... "
                    Entreprise Arms - FFL 07 manufacturer of CA-Legal FAL type rifles in Baldwin Park, CA.
                    EAI IMBEL-FAL 7.62x51 NATO, CA Legal: $999 shipped www.entreprise.com
                    SIG, Beretta, Glock, XD, HK Tritium GS sights

                    "Opinions posted in this account are my own and not the approved position of any organization."

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      SWalt
                      Calguns Addict
                      • Jan 2012
                      • 8578

                      Problem is people expect a mask to work 100%, either it does or does not. Unless you breath through a 100% effective filter and exhale through a 100% filter aerosols will always intrude or escape.
                      ^^^The above is just an opinion.

                      NRA Patron Member
                      CRPA 5 yr Member

                      "...which from their verbosity, their endless tautologies, their involutions of case within case, and parenthesis within parenthesis, and their multiplied efforts at certainty by saids and aforesaids, by ors and by ands, to make them more plain, do really render them more perplexed and incomprehensible, not only to common readers, but to lawyers themselves. " - Thomas Jefferson

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        therealnickb
                        King- Lifetime
                        CGN Contributor - Lifetime
                        • Oct 2011
                        • 8919

                        Shocked I tell ya'!

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Den60
                          CGN/CGSSA Contributor
                          CGN Contributor
                          • Jul 2016
                          • 2695

                          Duenor's utopia:



                          Mojave Lever Crew Member

                          "It is time for us to do what we have been doing and that time is every day. Every day it is time for us to agree that there are things and tools that are available to us to slow this thing down." - Kamala "Heels Up" Harris

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            sd_shooter
                            I need a LIFE!!
                            • Dec 2008
                            • 13680

                            Those who are afraid should go ahead and wear masks:
                            - Fatties
                            - Elderly
                            - Those who are already sick with something else

                            Everyone else, live your life. Your immune system can easily handle this cold-like disease, speaking from personal experience and those of everyone we know.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              osis32
                              Calguns Addict
                              • Jul 2009
                              • 5912

                              Originally posted by Den60
                              Duenor's utopia:



                              Fify
                              Just a libertarian guy in a Leftist Authoritarian state.

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