Transporting of Shotgun Question

[BackpackerOH]

Hi All,

I've been scouring the forums and web for the past couple of days on how to legally transport a firearm.

A little information about my predicament:

I live in Ohio but will be visiting CA this August. I will be backpacking the entirety of the John Muir Trail, which traverses through many National Parks and as well as other areas that are not in National Parks.

I am not worried about bears or other 4-legged creatures, I want to pack a firearm for 2-legged predators. Ideally I would like to pack a handgun, however from my research I don't think I can do that legally. I'm not worried about it being unloaded as I have verified it is impossible for me to legally carry any form of firearm loaded. Unloaded would be better than nothing. Is there any legal way to carry an unloaded handgun in my pack, with the ammo separate?

I have seen in separate threads that a loaded magazine does not constitute a 'loaded' firearm, which would be ideal. Is this information true?

Elsewhere I read that a campground is considered a 'temporary dwelling' and as such, I can have a loaded firearm at said campsite. Does that statement sound correct?

Lastly, if I cannot legally pack an (unloaded) handgun, would I be able to pack an unloaded pistol grip pump-action shotgun, completely concealed in my pack?

I came across AB 1527 which states:

"26400. (a) A person is guilty of carrying an unloaded firearm that is not a handgun in an incorporated city or city and county when that person carries upon his or her person an unloaded firearm that is not a handgun outside a vehicle while in the incorporated city or city and county."

None of the exemptions to that law seemed to be warranted in my case.

This made me think that even packing a long gun might be out of the question.

Any information on these questions, or other information regarding legally carrying some form of firearm would be greatly appreciated. After reading CA gun laws over the past two days I can sense the aggravation you must deal with unjustly on a daily basis. Wish it was different for you all on the West coast!

Many Thanks,

Nick

[sealocan]

I'm not sure if this will help but there's some great information on the
" Calguns foundation Wiki information pages"

about California's complex firearms laws broken down into language that a regular person can understand.

[BackpackerOH]

Thanks Sealocan, I'll review that for more information.

[Written]

contact the local ranger stations
Yosemite: "Call us at 209/372-0200 (then dial 3 then 5)
The public information office is open from 9 am to 5 pm Pacific time (closed for lunch). If the ranger is already on the line, you'll be returned to the main menu. If the ranger is not there, you can leave a message and we will return your call"

Kings Canyon and Sequoia:"559-565-3341
For 24-hour recorded information.
Speak with park staff from 8:15 a.m.-4:15 p.m., weekdays only. *We have been experiencing technical problems receiving some incoming phone calls. We apologize for the inconvenience. Please keep trying to reach us, send an email, or check this website for frequently-asked questions."

All info can be found on NPS websites.
Also from their website

"Weapons and Firearms in the Parks

Firearms are allowed in many national parks. People who can legally possess firearms under federal and state law may be able to possess them in a national park depending upon state laws. State and local firearms laws vary. Visitors who would like to bring a firearm with them to a national park need to understand and comply with the applicable laws. (Note: More than 30 national parks are located in more than one state, so visitors need to know where they are in those parks and which state's law applies.)

Federal law continues to prohibit the possession of firearms in designated "federal facilities" in national parks, for example, visitor centers, offices, or maintenance buildings. These places are posted with "firearms prohibited" signs at public entrances.

While the law allows visitors to possess firearms, it does not allow for the use of firearms in national parks and does not change existing hunting regulations. Hunting is not allowed in Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks.

Prior to February 22, 2010, firearms were generally prohibited in national parks - except in some Alaska parks and parks that allowed hunting. Laws & Policies"

"Firearms

As of February 22, 2010, a new federal law allows people who can legally possess firearms under applicable federal, state, and local laws, to legally possess firearms in this park.

It is the responsibility of visitors to understand and comply with all applicable state, local, and federal firearms laws before entering this park. As a starting point, visit the California Attorney General's website.

Federal law also prohibits firearms in certain facilities in this park; those places are marked with signs at all public entrances.

Discharging a firearm for any reason is illegal."

Links

http://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/yoursafety.htm

http://www.nps.gov/seki/contacts.htm

http://www.nps.gov/yose/contacts.htm

http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/weapons.htm

Have fun and be safe

[Chewy65]

Is a federal park even in a county?

26350. (a) (1) A person is guilty of openly carrying an unloaded
handgun when that person carries upon his or her person an exposed
and unloaded handgun outside a vehicle while in or on any of the
following:
(A) A public place or public street in an incorporated city or
city and county.
(B) A public street in a prohibited area of an unincorporated area
of a county or city and county.
(C) A public place in a prohibited area of a county or city and
county.
(2) A person is guilty of openly carrying an unloaded handgun when
that person carries an exposed and unloaded handgun inside or on a
vehicle, whether or not on his or her person, while in or on any of
the following:
(A) A public place or public street in an incorporated city or
city and county.
(B) A public street in a prohibited area of an unincorporated area
of a county or city and county.
(C) A public place in a prohibited area of a county or city and
county.
(b) (1) Except as specified in paragraph (2), a violation of this
section is a misdemeanor.

[trapperjohn]

I have several friends that have hiked the Pacific Crest Trail (PCT), of which the JMT is a small part. Like you, I thought having some firearm security was a prudent idea, given the isolated nature of the hike. I have also hiked parts of both trails.

But in talking to those who have hiked these high mountain back country trails for most/all of their length, not one of them ever took a fire arm, and every one of them never felt the need. As they explained it to me; essentially, except for the times you are in normally populated areas for resupply, you are very much alone in the wilderness (that's one of the main draws of these trails). The people you do come across on the trail are other tired and hungry hikers like you, not the itinerant low-life (there are WAAAY easier ways for criminals to do what they do without being on the JMT looking for the very occasional hiker).

Most importantly, and this applies to any backpacking trek, but especially on the JMT/PCT, weight is going to be your worst enemy (and lack of calories). You are carrying everything you are living on, for about a week at a time. So every step, every minute, every hour, every day, you are schlepping it on your back. Even a compact handgun and a loaded clip becomes a very heavy burden after the first hundred miles or so.

It may be a good compromise, and be more relevantly useful, to carry a can or two of bear spray. Not only are you more likely to have a bear issue than a human one, but the bear spray is pretty effective on people too. And it weighs a lot less than a handgun.

MTCW.

[Written]

Is a federal park even in a county?

All of the state is seperated into counties, the boundaries of a park do not negate county lines federal or state

[Chewy65]

This is an excerpt from a summary of gun laws that I believe was created by a calgunner:

*1 - The firearms prohibition in NPs and NWRs was lifted on 2/22/10.
*1 - UOC of handguns is not legal in NPs effective 1/1/12 as a result of AB144 (PC 26350)
*1 - LOC, UOC, UCC, and LCC are all legal in one's campsite. (PC 26055, 26383, & 25605)
*1 - Since NPs can be near/within urban areas, school zones can be an issue. Unlocked firearms are not allowed within 1000 feet of a K-12 school.
*1 - CA CCW/LTC permit holders may LCC anywhere in NPs except in federal facilities (buildings with federal employees and no-firearms signs posted).

The *1 indicates the reference is to National Parks.

PC 26055 specifically allows a loaded weapon at a campsite.

26055. Nothing in Section 25850 shall prevent any person from
having a loaded weapon, if it is otherwise lawful, at the person's
place of residence, including any temporary residence or campsite.

[Written]

This is an excerpt from a summary of gun laws that I believe was created by a calgunner:



The *1 indicates the reference is to National Parks.

PC 26055 specifically allows a loaded weapon at a campsite.

I never said they had the same laws, I said it was in a county thats what you asked. You never asked if the county laws were the same in a federal park, you asked if a federal park was in a county. Which they are.

[Chewy65]

As for carrying an unloaded pistol grip shotgun concealed in a backpack, I think you may have a problem even assuming the shotgun meets minimum overall and barrel length minimums. It isn't a handgun but check that the section quoted below also covers long guns.

25505 In order for a firearm to be exempted under this article,
while being transported to or from a place, the firearm shall
be unloaded and kept in a locked container, and the course of
travel shall include only those deviations between authorized
locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

Re transportation in a vehicle see this from Calgunsfoundation, and especially note the destination requirements. My example, driving from home to the range and back is fine, but driving all about town is not.

[Chewy65]

I never said they had the same laws, I said it was in a county thats what you asked. You never asked if the county laws were the same in a federal park, you asked if a federal park was in a county. Which they are.

I didn't in any way intend to critique what you wrote or suggest you said one thing or the other.

[Nate the Great]

No firearms in National Parks. Big signs written in English even when crossing park boundaries in the back country.

And I second what trapperjohn stated: no need for a firearm on the trail.

I hiked from Mexico to Oregon on the PCT last season and never once had even the slightest desire to be carrying a firearm.

Instead of concerning yourself with this issue I advise you to spend your time reducing your pack weight as much as possible. Every ounce counts, especially when you're climbing a mountain pass, the Golden Staircase or Mt
Whitney. Plan to visit the 11,000'-13,000' level daily. I recommend sleeping at about 9,000' to get the climb done before the day heats up, and it really heats up being on that exposed granite.

Enjoy the trail!

[bubbapug1]

Shti can the gun in the sierra's....the weight is just prohibitive at elevation, and there are no scum bags looking to rip you off once you get a mile into the trails. The only danger will probably be in the parking lot, and even than once your actually on the trail the target will most likely be your car.

Prepare more for the bear issues as they are a real threat to your food.

You will be hard pressed to carry what you do need, let alone something you don't.

[SkyHawk]

Re transportation in a vehicle see this from Calgunsfoundation, and especially note the destination requirements. My example, driving from home to the range and back is fine, but driving all about town is not.

Driving all about town with a firearm unloaded in a locked container is fine, there are no destination requirements when you are in a vehicle. You can carry a loaded magazine in the same locked container. The container does not have to be in the trunk. It is when you are *not* in a vehicle that the destination requirements kick in. That is per the very page you referenced. Many Calgunners who do not have CCW, legally drive everywhere they go with a firearm unloaded and locked in the car with a loaded magazine in the same container. There are plenty of threads here on the subject. We have enough limitations on our rights, no need to self impose any more restrictions with FUD.

[Chewy65]

Driving all about town with a firearm unloaded in a locked container is fine, there are no destination requirements when you are in a vehicle. You can carry a loaded magazine in the same locked container. The container does not have to be in the trunk. It is when you are *not* in a vehicle that the destination requirements kick in. That is per the very page you referenced. Many Calgunners who do not have CCW, legally drive everywhere they go with a firearm unloaded and locked in the car with a loaded magazine in the same container. There are plenty of threads here on the subject. We have enough limitations on our rights, no need to self impose any more restrictions with FUD.

You are right and I should have know better, as I recently looked at the question of just what qualified as a locked container vs a compartment of a vehicle. Perhaps I was focused on the fact that the OP was asking about backpacking, but I was still wrong about the vehicle.